Sänger II aerospaceplane project

[Jemiba]

Taken last Friday during a behind-the scenes tour in the "Militärhistorisches Museum Gatow" (military historical museum Gatow),
ex "Luftwaffenmuseum Gatow", those photos of model in 1 : 8,5 scale, maybe the same as shown in Flateri´cs post here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,580.msg256280.html#msg256280.
Getting a complete view was almost impossible due to the quite cramped storage in that hangar, sorry.

 

[Hobbes]

Interesting. So the top half of the second stage was silver. Does that include the top surface of the wings?

 

[martinbayer]

Interesting. So the top half of the second stage was silver. Does that include the top surface of the wings?

Sure, why not: https://www.google.com/search?q=S%C3%A4nger+horus&num=100&lr=&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjY9-KKl9LMAhUN2GMKHbT3C1AQ_AUIBygB&biw=1600&bih=1085

Anything's possible with a model.

Martin

 

[Michel Van]

Some explanation on that text.

BMFT = Bundesministerium für Bildung und Forschung (Federal Ministry of Education and Research)

Daimler-Benz Aeropspace aka DASA merged with Aérospatiale-Matra and CASA to form EADS in 2000.

MAN = Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg, here there subdivision MAN Technologie

DLR = Deutsche Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt e. V. (German Aerospace Center )

IABG = Industrieanlagen-Betriebsgesellschaft mbH (Analyst and Testing Materials company)

university of
Aachen = Rheinisch-Westfälische Technische Hochschule Aachen (independently feasibility study on MMB Sänger)
Braunschweig = Technische Universität Braunschweig
München = Technische Universität München
Stuttgart = Universität Stuttgart

what exactly the three university, had to do with Sänger i don't know.
Technische Universität München and Universität Stuttgart have Aerospace department.

 

[martinbayer]

Michel,

thank you for pointing out the "small print". I studied aerospace engineering at Universität Stuttgart and later worked in the space studies departments of IABG, where I briefly had an affiliation with the Sänger II "Förderkonzept Hyperschalltechnologie", as it was officially called, and then MAN Technologie, so this picture is evocative to me.

Martin

 

[flateric]

...

 

[antigravite]

Yes, thank you. Very good find. I had very close connections to Sänger's son, Hartmut (who passed away in december 2015). We shared a lot but we never discussed this early article. Although I had privileged access to all archives for a research project. Thank you again.
A.

About eight years ago I met Hartmut. German TV was doing a special about spaceflight and for some reason Hartmut suggested that they interview me. So for reasons that make no sense to me they flew me over to Germany and I appeared on German TV. Hartmut then gave me a watch that I still wear today. What I did not realize at the time was that it was a very good watch. So Hartmut's a cool guy in my book. I was sorry to hear of his passing.

He offered me a watch too!!! (And his iPad, as he didn't like Apple products…) I'll DM you!!!
A.

 

[blackstar]

I did not have a watch, so I accepted the gift and started wearing it. I like it. A few years ago I was at an electronic music concert and I was buying a CD from a musician (Robert Rich, if you want to know). He noticed my watch and asked to look at it. I said that it was a gift and he said "It must be from a very good friend." I asked him why. Then he told me that the watch was probably worth $800.

I guess Hartmut liked watches.

I occasionally show people my watch and tell them that it was given to me by the son of the guy who wanted to build a spaceplane to nuke New York City.

 

[flateric]

Slightly different photo of Sänger-D

 

[LazloF]

I did not have a watch, so I accepted the gift and started wearing it. I like it. A few years ago I was at an electronic music concert and I was buying a CD from a musician (Robert Rich, if you want to know). He noticed my watch and asked to look at it. I said that it was a gift and he said "It must be from a very good friend." I asked him why. Then he told me that the watch was probably worth $800.

I guess Hartmut liked watches.

I occasionally show people my watch and tell them that it was given to me by the son of the guy who wanted to build a spaceplane to nuke New York City.

You are a very lucky person Blackstar! I wish I had met Hartmand. btw I have the excellent book on the Antipodal bomber: Sanger - Germany's Orbital Bomber in World War II and I frequently write about the subject. This book has been a wealth of information about the subject and Eugen Sanger's later life. Does anybody know if he went to Brazil after the war?

I heard a rumour about this. But I think this may be confused with Kurt Tank, who worked for Peron in Argentina before joining Sanger to work in Egypt under Nasser on the Ha 300/400(?)

Also, does anybody know if this reputed GI photo of a Silverbird mockup is genuine and is there a better version anywhere?

 

[hesham]

From Krila 6/1987.

 

[archipeppe]

...

I'm interested to get more details (3 views, specifications and more) about such upper wing with canard early configuration of mid-80's.
It is a sort of joining link about the original Junker RT-8 proposal of mid-60's and the actual MBB Sanger II of early 90's.

The upper wing with canard become really popular at that times along with the very first configuration of Hermes and HOPE spaceplanes.

Someone can help me?

 

[Dilandu]

The Germans had high-temperature metals unknown in the US.

No, they don't. In fact, German metallurgy was rather primitive. They never managed to make reliable gas turbine, for example - not only due to lack of resources, but also due to lack of technical knowledge.

 

[numbers station]

https://flic.kr/p/2m1EVZt

View: https://flic.kr/p/2m1EVZt

 

[numbers station]

https://flic.kr/p/2m1AvjY

View: https://flic.kr/p/2m1AvjY

 

[hesham]

From, Ein Jahrhundert Flugzeuge Geschichte und Technik des Fliegens

 

[publiusr]

The sexiest TSTO concept ever. I did like the Andrews Gryphon concept as well. Quarter horse looks pretty nice…though not a spaceplane. Space liner didn’t make nearly the splash…

 

[AVD Laboratory]

Sänger-Bredt rocket bomber

etc.

Having read and photographed the original report on Saenger's Raketenantrieb fuer Fernbomber, see attached, I can confidently say that most of the above account is entirely speculative. The design is never referred to, for example, as 'Rabo'.

View attachment 655902

I say 'photographed', looking though my files I believe I actually scanned every single page of it...

View attachment 655906

 

[sgeorges4]

It's been a hwile I've been here. Can't seem to find the revell kit mentionned on the first page and takom got 2 out . I wonder how accurate their kit is to the report https://www.super-hobby.fr/products...l-Suborbital-Bomber-Atomic-Payload-Suite.html

 

[jstar]

It's been a hwile I've been here. Can't seem to find the revell kit mentionned on the first page and takom got 2 out . I wonder how accurate their kit is to the report https://www.super-hobby.fr/products...l-Suborbital-Bomber-Atomic-Payload-Suite.html

 

[martinbayer]

It's been a hwile I've been here. Can't seem to find the revell kit mentionned on the first page and takom got 2 out . I wonder how accurate their kit is to the report https://www.super-hobby.fr/products...l-Suborbital-Bomber-Atomic-Payload-Suite.html

The Revell kit is a model of the 1980's Sänger II "revival" concept of an HTHL TSTO RLV design by then Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm (MBB), which was an airbreathing update of the 1960's Sänger I HTHL TSTO rocket propelled RLV that in turn was inspired by the original suborbital Sänger Silbervogel design study. While the kit is in general a reasonably representative rendition of the Sänger II configuration, its connection to the Silbervogel is in the Sänger name only, being two design generations removed, so it has no direct relation to the Takom kit. Note also that the Revell kit, while providing a fairly accurate overall representation of the Sänger II shape, has a major blooper in the representation of the airbreathing propulsion section of the lower stage by featuring six exhaust ducts for the turboramjet engines, but only five air intake ducts.

 

[publiusr]

One of China’s spaceplane concepts is quite similar

Combined-Cycle Engine Space Plane

www.globalsecurity.org

https://twitter.com/x/status/972121508108783617

View: https://twitter.com/starmil_admin/status/972121508108783617

 

[martinbayer]

You mean the Chinese might have 'improved' a German concept??? Why, I am shocked, shocked...

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Moved all Sanger posts to https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/sänger-antipodal-bomber.5002/

 

[flateric]

1987

 

[flateric]

ILA'90

 

[TsrJoe]

Flight International, August 1987

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1-9-1986

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1-6-1988.