Richelieu and Jean Bart BBGs

[uk 75]

While missile conversions of USN and RN battleships have been discussed at some length here I was surprised to find nothing about France.
Richelieu and Jean Bart were impressive battleships. Jean even took part in the 1956 Suez operation. They were around in various shore roles until the end of the 60s.
France developed its own submarine launched Polaris type weapons and its own Seaslug/Terrier counterpart (Masurca). With two modern battleships of similar vintage to the Iowas and Vanguard you can see where my thoughts are heading.
Because I am relaxed about expanding my threads one could add the two Andrea Doria battleships which Italy kept after the war until 1956.

 

[EwenS]

Italy
2 problems with your proposal for the Dorias.
1. The 1947 Peace Treaty with the Allies (including the USSR).

"Article 51
Italy shall not possess, construct or experiment with ... (ii) any any self propelled or guided missile or apparatus connected with their discharge (other than torpedoes and torpedo launching gear comprising the normal armament of naval vessels permitted by the present Treaty)...."
That obviously changed at some point to allow the building of the new Terrier equipped Doria class helicopter cruisers under the 1957/58 Programme. Constructed 1958-64. But when did the change occur?

Articles 58-60 dealt with the restrictions on the Italian Navy and Annex XIIA with the ships that they could retain. Note limit on personnel of 25,000. in Article 60(1).

Treaties of peace with Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Roumania, and Finland no.21 1947.

2. The age of these vessels
While these ships were extensively reconstructed in the 1930s, their core construction dated back to their original construction between 1912 & 1916.

France
Richelieu was reduced to gunnery training ship status from 1951, the money not being available to bring her up to the standard intended for Jean Bart.

The modernisation of Jean Bart dragged on and was not completed until 1955 and operated with a reduced complement in a training role. For Suez her crew was increased but only part of her armament was able to be manned (380mm Turret II, 152mm Turret VII plus 2 groups of 100mm and 3 groups of 57mm).

Jordan & Dumas "French Battleships 1922-1956" has details of various Guided MIssile Cruiser conversion proposals of Jean Bart alone. Project 1 of 1957 was a modernisation of the AA armament.

Project 2. 1958 5 different configurations
Solution A - removal of 4 57mm ACAD mountings on quarterdeck and associated directors. Construction of a missile hanagr by extending shelter deck.. Missile storage for 24-44 missiles stowed horizontally at 45 degrees to centreline. Installation of 3 horizontal launch ramps each side of the hangar.
Solution B - As above but more hangar space created and vertical missile storage with loading of 6 launch ramps vertically through the hangar roof. 75-150 missiles
Solution C - similar to B but no hangar, instead removal of upper deck and loss of crew accomodation. 6 launch ramps on quarter deck with evrtical loading. 75-90 missiles.
Solution D - suppress 380mm Turret I. Extend shelter deck forward to after breakwater to create missile storage. 85 missiles in former magazines, 125 in the deckhouse. 3 or 4 lanch ramps.
Solution E - suppression of Turret I & II and large hangar constructed, to stow missiles vertically above upper deck level. Extending forward to after breakwater would reate sapce for 325 missiles. 6-8 launch ramps.

Note the missile to be stowed is not identified.

Project 3 Terrier missile conversion.
Removal of centreline 152mm turret
Installation of a twin arm US Mk.10 launcher
Stowage of 3 missiles only beneath the launcher.

This was intended for training missile crews and nothing else. Turret to be replaced later.

 

[Dilandu]

While missile conversions of USN and RN battleships have been discussed at some length here I was surprised to find nothing about France.
Richelieu and Jean Bart were impressive battleships. Jean even took part in the 1956 Suez operation. They were around in various shore roles until the end of the 60s.

As mentioned above, it was actually considered in late 1950s. The main goal was to install SAM batteries of them - medium-range MASURCA (a Terrier analogue) and long-range MASALACA (a Talos analogue) missiles were considered.



Also, it seems that French Navy in late 1950s showed interest toward USN's Regulus-II program, and considered buying missiles to arm with French warheads.

 

[Dilandu]

Because I am relaxed about expanding my threads one could add the two Andrea Doria battleships which Italy kept after the war until 1956.

Those were too old for any missile refit to be really practical. I suppose, they could remove the rear superfiring turret and install a Mk-4 Terrier GMLS (the same as on "Garibaldi", with vertical missile storage) in its place; it would still leave ships with eight-gun broadside.

P.S. If Littorio-class units were allowed to be retained by Italians, then they probably would at least seriously consider their modernization. Italians seems to prefer large units as SAM platforms; they build more cruisers post-war than all other Western Europe.

 

[BlackBat242]

Italy
2 problems with your proposal for the Dorias.
1. The 1947 Peace Treaty with the Allies (including the USSR).

"Article 51
Italy shall not possess, construct or experiment with ... (ii) any any self propelled or guided missile or apparatus connected with their discharge (other than torpedoes and torpedo launching gear comprising the normal armament of naval vessels permitted by the present Treaty)...."
That obviously changed at some point to allow the building of the new Terrier equipped Doria class helicopter cruisers under the 1957/58 Programme. Constructed 1958-64. But when did the change occur?

The existing 1936 light cruiser Giuseppe Garibaldi was also equipped with Terrier - her modernization running from 1957 to 1961 - and then again in 1966-67 with 4 launching tubes for Polaris SLBMs (SuLBMs?) aft of the still-functional Terrier system.

 

[Dilandu]

The existing 1936 light cruiser Giuseppe Garibaldi was also equipped with Terrier - her modernization running from 1957 to 1961 - and then again in 1966-67 with 4 launching tubes for Polaris SLBMs (SuLBMs?) aft of the still-functional Terrier system.

The Polaris tubes were installed during 1957-1961 refit; the "Garibaldi" was planned to be a prototype of the "Multilateral Force" concept (that Europe would maintain its own nuclear deterrence using American missiles installed on surface warships). The MLF idea never gained much traction across the Europe, but Italians were quite enthusiastic, and when MLF was cancelled, decided to develope their own ship-launched ballistic missile, the "Alfa" (tested in 1970s, ultimatedly cancelled - when USA refused to provide nuclear warheads - but served as major boost to Italian rocket programs)