Red Queen and Red King AA autocannons

[smurf]

This is Red Queen, re the website in RP1's post. should it be a new thread?
These pics are I suppose the mock up. I have seen another photo of Red Queen, I think in Ian Hogg's book on AA artillery.

 

[smurf]

More Red Queen, the real thing I think

 

[Pioneer]

More Red Queen, the real thing I think

Wow what a design! What fire power!!
I would love to see footage of the Red Queen in action!!
Did it get to trial firings before it was sadly canned?

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Tony Williams]

Three 1950s anti-aircraft autocannon systems: two for the British Army, one for the USA. Prototypes were built but never adopted. A summary is here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/RED%20QUEEN.htm

 

[Tony Williams]

I put them together because they are considered together in my web article to which I provided a link in my first post. In fact, the article is mostly about Red King/Red Queen, so I would prefer to see the original heading restored.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Merged with existing topic. Discuss Red King / Red Queen here.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Three 1950s anti-aircraft autocannon systems: two for the British Army, one for the USA. Prototypes were built but never adopted. A summary is here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/RED QUEEN.htm

Link is down.

 

[Jemiba]

Only substitute I found is this :
http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/RED QUEEN.htm

 

[Tony Williams]

It's the same article - my web address changed.

 

[JFC Fuller]

Looking at the diagrams and mockup of the Red Queen and comparing it to the Red Kind photos I noted following:

The Red King weapon appears to simply, ignoring the complexity of the gun design itself, be the weapon mounted on a carriage in much the same way the Bofors L70 ultimately was in British Army service. Thus it would fit into an AA unit just as the Bofors L70 did, with separate power generation (Generating Set 27.5kVa No.1 Mk.1, Meadows) and fire control systems (Fire Control Equipment No.7 Mk.4, Yellow Fever). There is also no obvious position for an onboard gun crew which suggests the weapon was to be automatically slewed by an off-board fire control system itself directed by a separate air warning radar.

By contrast, Red Queen appears to have its own onboard generator and at least one crew position can be identified, there might be two but it is hard to tell from the images in post 1. There is a large square object on the face of the gun shield in front of this crew position, I wonder whether this was a placeholder for a radar antenna. If so, this would make the Red Queen package a somewhat more ambitious effort, gun complexity side, than the Red King in that it would only require an external air warning radar.

 

[DWG]

By contrast, Red King appears to have its own onboard generator and at least one crew position can be identified, there might be two but it is hard to tell from the images in post 1. There is a large square object on the face of the gun shield in front of this crew position, I wonder whether this was a placeholder for a radar antenna. If so, this would make the Red Queen package a somewhat more ambitious effort, gun complexity side, than the Red King in that it would only require an external air warning radar.

I suspect you meant Red Queen in the first line of that paragraph.

 

[smurf]

Just to clarify some confusion above.
1. My second post was wrong. The pictures are of Red King.
Tony Williams article explains, particularly the paragraph

"For some reason not yet discovered, in 1952 the UK decided to develop a rival to Red King under the 'Red Queen' designation. The gun which emerged (shown above) differed in various respects from the Oerlikon, most notably in having a single, water-cooled barrel rather than twin barrels, but it retained the huge, side-mounted pan magazine (only just visible in these illustrations)."

But, if you right click on his pictures of Red King, the "View Image" and "Save Image" results say the pictures are Red Queen

 

[JohnR]

I've always been intrigued by the Vigilante, it's always possess the question for me of how large a caliber of ammo can be used in a Gatling Gun.ge

Also the Avenger version of the DIVAD proposal was IMO the best looking of the lot:

 

[Tony Williams]

But, if you right click on his pictures of Red King, the "View Image" and "Save Image" results say the pictures are Red Queen

The image designations are incorrect - those two pictures show Red King.

There was, for a long time, a lot of confusion about Red Queen, Red King and their ammunition, leading to some wrong designations being applied to images. I believe that my web article was the first to sort all of this out, with help from other researchers named in the article.

 

[Wavertree]

Three 1950s anti-aircraft autocannon systems: two for the British Army, one for the USA. Prototypes were built but never adopted. A summary is here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/RED QUEEN.htm

Tony, the summary referred to at nildram in your post no longer exists.
Do you know where I can find a copy?
Regards,
Tony Sheffield

 

[Tony Williams]

Three 1950s anti-aircraft autocannon systems: two for the British Army, one for the USA. Prototypes were built but never adopted. A summary is here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/RED QUEEN.htm

Tony, the summary referred to at nildram in your post no longer exists.
Do you know where I can find a copy?
Regards,
Tony Sheffield

https://www.quarryhs.co.uk/RED QUEEN.htm

 

[klem]

In the 1950s the United Kingdom with the help of Switzerland (Oerlikon) undertook attempts to develop advanced anti-aircraft guns to replace its Bofors L/56 40 mm guns with new and very capable systems breaking with those from the WW2. It was the 421 RK 42mm Revolver Kanone baptized by the British Red King developed up to the prototype stage, fascinating from a technical point of view its caliber was 42 mm and fired a 1.09 kg shell at 1,070 m/s to develop a muzzle energy of 624,000 joules, an 80% increase over the 40 x 311R Bofors L/56. The gun design chosen was a revolver, but with a seven-chamber cylinder and two barrels. Ammunition feed was by means of a 75-round pan magazine to the left side of the gun which was reloaded by means of three-round clips, and a rate of fire of 450 rpm was claimed (three times that of the Bofors L/56 ). The entire weapon on its wheeled mounting weighed over 6,500 kg. Very little information circulates about the Oerlikon cannon yet very promising. Oerlikon continued working on Red King until 1958 finally the project was canceled by the British in favor of the 40mm Bofors L /70 cannon.