Rafale X J-20 Commission

ollys_aviation

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So! I just received my first commission in about 2 months! I am mashing together a J-20 and a Rafale and I gotta be honest, other than the J-20's influence on my F-56, I hate it, and I also hate the Rafale, so mixing the two and making it 5th Gen is a hurdle.
 

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Size comparison for scale :D
 

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What a cursed combination. Is there a reason you prefer the narrow & tall cockpit for this design?
Amazing work as always!
 
What a cursed combination. Is there a reason you prefer the narrow & tall cockpit for this design?
Amazing work as always!
Well the rafale is iconic in that regard, at least that is what stands out to me, and in almost every design I have made, I have always chosen a taller and more narrow cockpit look simply because it's *sexy*, in addition, the J-20 and the rafale are both delta wings, have canards, and it would have been less recognizable for what it is as a result of not enhancing some of the rafale features over the more obvious J-20 feats.
 
It seems that the twin-vertical stabilizers are exceptionally tall, considering that the one vertical stabilizer of the Rafael is replaced by two canted stabilizers. Looking at the FA/18 Hornet, would you think that they would be sized similar to the Hornets (as both the conceptual design and the Hornet's angle of canting and the aircraft sizes are similar)? Awesome job BTW!
 
It seems that the twin-vertical stabilizers are exceptionally tall, considering that the one vertical stabilizer of the Rafael is replaced by two canted stabilizers. Looking at the FA/18 Hornet, would you think that they would be sized similar to the Hornets (as both the conceptual design and the Hornet's angle of canting and the aircraft sizes are similar)? Awesome job BTW!
To be totally real with ya, I used a blueprint for proportions and the height of the stabilizer is the height of the vertical stabilizer on the rafale so it’s a little large, also a little late since I finalized the geometry at this point
 
What makes it looking weird to me is the boxy appearance of the fuselage, it is much more blended with the wings on a plain Rafale.
Also seems the wing is in low position, while it's in middle position on rafale.
These small wings looks funny too.
There are a few "stealthized" Rafale concept around. Like this one :
Which retain the aerodynamic concept of the inlets (part of boundary layer blow over the upper wing surface to energize the flow there), but the wing plan is just ugly...
Also this old official Dassault image :

134652-bf2afe01db5dc13cd235b2cea05944e9.jpg

Problem may be adding J-20 stuff onto a rafale shape and make it look nice, cause J-20 looks like a fat ugly stealthy whale to me :D
But sure you'll find a way :)
 
What makes it looking weird to me is the boxy appearance of the fuselage, it is much more blended with the wings on a plain Rafale.
Also seems the wing is in low position, while it's in middle position on rafale.
These small wings looks funny too.
There are a few "stealthized" Rafale concept around. Like this one :
Which retain the aerodynamic concept of the inlets (part of boundary layer blow over the upper wing surface to energize the flow there), but the wing plan is just ugly...
Also this old official Dassault image :

View attachment 743815

Problem may be adding J-20 stuff onto a rafale shape and make it look nice, cause J-20 looks like a fat ugly stealthy whale to me :D
But sure you'll find a way :)
AS much now as I would like to incorporate the changes, the client did approve this design over sketches that were less boxy to really emphasize the J-20 aspects :'(
 
Hi @galgot

I have been searching for years for the origin of this image. Can you tell me in which media/magazine/book/link/article/press release/event/... it first appeared (and when)?
hi @Deltafan :) Sorry, I'm afraid I can't be of any help knowing the original source of that image. First time I saw it was here, in the Rafale thread I think. I remembered it when I googled "stealthized rafale" images. It is said most of the time it's coming from Dassault, but indeed, without the original source, hard to be sure.
That 3d image matches 2005-2015 Cad software images styles tho... So it could be from Dassault.

Edit: checking more, I found this page in Slovak :
Such an approach requires a radical redesign of the entire machine, and this is precisely the aim of the Rafale mid-life update study. The heavily modified aircraft has lost its vertical tailplane and in its place has been given two lateral combined butterfly floating surfaces. Other significant changes have been made to the fuselage around the cockpit, including its overlap and the air inlets to the engine. The exhaust plumes are better cooled for lower infrared reflectivity, and conventional armament, unmodified for low radar reflectivity, is carried in external bomb bays under the wing. A Rafale modified in this way can substantially increase its already decent probability of survival on the battlefield, so let's hope it sees implementation.

Dassault rarely publishes its designs for advanced combat aircraft, so it is difficult to form an idea of its current technological level. Thus, one has to use, shall we say, rather non-standard procedures to obtain information. The first indications of the direction of further development were provided by the book "Dassault - L'Enterprise - 1945-1995 ... 50 ans d'aventure aéronautique", where an illustration of a study of the successor to the Rafale appeared. This rather ugly aircraft had engines, including air inlets and nozzles on the top of the fuselage, shaded by butterfly tail surfaces. Another of the few published studies, for example, was a rather large long-range unmanned reconnaissance aircraft operating at high altitudes.

In the 1990s, the company carried out an extensive series of studies called FACE (Future Avion de Combat Europeén), which were intended to indicate the future prospective direction of the development of European fighter and attack aircraft. One of the resulting products was a small stealth piloted fighter with a cannon wing with a swept trailing edge, an air inlet to the engine under the cockpit and without any tail surfaces. It was to become the successor to the successful Mirage series of aircraft. However, its development would have required a considerable amount of funding, which neither Dassault nor the French state budget was able to provide. FACE studies suggested that a more sensible way forward would be to concentrate on just two main activities, namely the incremental modernisation of the Rafale and the development of a prototype unmanned combat vehicle, the AVE (Aeronef de Validation Experimentale). The unmanned aerial vehicle later became an international project and currently goes by the name of nEUROn."
Maybe that book is the source ? Together with that stealthized rafale, are included other Dassault concepts images, same style. I think it's indeed from Dassault.

Sorry @ollys_aviation for hijacking your thread , I'll stop here :D
 
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hi @Deltafan :) Sorry, I'm afraid I can't be of any help knowing the original source of that image. First time I saw it was here, in the Rafale thread I think. I remembered it when I googled "stealthized rafale" images. It is said most of the time it's coming from Dassault, but indeed, without the original source, hard to be sure.
That 3d image matches 2005-2015 Cad software images styles tho... So it could be from Dassault.

Edit: checking more, I found this page in Slovak :

Maybe that book is the source ? Together with that stealthized rafale, are included other Dassault concepts images, same style. I think it's indeed from Dassault.

Sorry @ollys_aviation for hijacking your thread , I'll stop here :D
Hi galgot,

Thanks for your answer.

I know this page in Slovak, and, indeed, it was when I discovered it (a very long time ago) that I saw the image for the first time. But in the book "Dassault - L'Entreprise - 1945-1995 ... 50 ans d'aventure aéronautique", the only corresponding image is that of the plane designated in the second paragraph (see below).

If we are to believe the first paragraph, the origin of the image I am looking for would indeed be Dassault. It remains to find the date and framework again. I hope to find the answer one day ;)
 

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hi @Deltafan :) Sorry, I'm afraid I can't be of any help knowing the original source of that image. First time I saw it was here, in the Rafale thread I think. I remembered it when I googled "stealthized rafale" images. It is said most of the time it's coming from Dassault, but indeed, without the original source, hard to be sure.
That 3d image matches 2005-2015 Cad software images styles tho... So it could be from Dassault.

Edit: checking more, I found this page in Slovak :

Maybe that book is the source ? Together with that stealthized rafale, are included other Dassault concepts images, same style. I think it's indeed from Dassault.

Sorry @ollys_aviation for hijacking your thread , I'll stop here :D
You are fine LOL
 

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