Projects of the German Secret Flight Test Center at Lipetsk, USSR 1924-1933

[Dynoman]

This thread was created to discuss the projects, plans, facilities, operations, and historical implications of the German interwar flight test center and military pilot training school that was developed in secrecy between the Germans and the Russians. This airfield played an important role in the rearming of the Germans after World War I, contrary to the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, and for the reformation of the German Air Force (Luftwaffe) and their tactics.

As I am aware (and many of you) that most of the projects were operational in nature for the repurpose or conversion of civilian and sport aircraft for military duty, there were numerous aircraft that were purpose built for the Lipetsk center, both for flight test and tactical exploitation, or tested there and not placed into production. I am curious if there ever were any specifications for specific fighter designs that originated at or for the Lipetsk center. Also, if any other Russian aircraft besides the Ju-22 (built in the Junkers facility at Fili, USSR to evade the terms of the treaty and provided for the Soviets) were tested there. (Attached are the Lipetsk Flight Test Center, JU-22, and Fokker D.XIII)

 

[Dynoman]

Aircraft tested at Lipetsk were from the manufacturers Ardo, Albatros, BFW, Heinkel, and Dornier. The list I have are:

Junkers Ju-22
Fokker DXIII
Fokker DXI
Fokker DVII
Junkers F13
Junkers A20
Junkers G24
Junkers A35
Junkers JuK47 (A48)
Junkers W34
Albatros L78
Albatros L77v
Albatros L76
Albatros L84
Heinkel HD21
Heinkel HD17
Heinkel HD38
Heinkel HD 40/II
Heinkel HD 41a
Heinkel HD 45
Heinkel He 59
Dornier B Mercury
Dornier Do P
Dornier F (alias Do 11)
Ardo Ar 64
BFW M.23c
Rohrbach Roland RoVIII

 

[hesham]

Strange subject my dear Dynoman,

and I think that,I have a book about Germany aircraft and developments in USSR,but I can't
remember its title now ?.

 

[Dynoman]

Hesham, there is a great book on German flight testing that has a chapter dedicated to Lipetsk. German Flight Test Centres to 1945 (2002 Midland Publishing).

Looking to see if the Germans had developed specifications for new fighter or bomber aircraft at Lipetsk and what was the extent of their research facilities (eg. wind tunnels, engine test stands, systems or material laboratories, etc.).

 

[Dynoman]

The Dornier 11 (Dornier F) was a development of the Dornier P and was displayed as a freight transport for a railway company in conjunction with Lufthansa, but was in fact a bomber pilot trainer flown to Lipetsk for trials and air crew training. It flew to Lipetsk with crates containing military systems such as bomb sights, bomb racks, redesigned aircraft parts, and gun mounts.

Dornier Do F 11 13 23

The first german bomber

www.histaviation.com

 

[Dynoman]

Heinkel's first encounter with the Lipetsk center, General Kurt Student, and the design of an aircraft for the center via RLM:

"When I returned to Warnemuende from Sweden, I was told that a certain visitor wished to see me. When I met him, he didn't introduce himself. Later, I found out that his name was Student. In spite of his civilian clothes, I felt from the outset that he was a military man. He made it a condition that our talk should be kept in confidence."

"After our first conversation, it still was not clear whom he really represented. Only some time later I understood who he was and the real reason for his visit. "With the government's permission, the Reichswehr assisted in reorganizing the army of Soviet Russia. That country needed the technological achievements Germany had. Wilberg headed the Reichswehr Aviation Department. He made a trip to Russia to study the possibility of training pilots there using airplanes built secretly in Germany."

"At the time, I could not understand why the visitor asked whether I would be able to make a landplane with a speed of 220 km/h and ceiling of 6000 meters, which could be employed as a short-range reconnaissance aircraft. I asked him what financial resources he had. The man smiled and said that he was ready to buy such an airplane immediately after it was built. After a bit of thought, I agreed. Thus, from 1923 on I became a participant in providing armaments for the German Army. To the surprise of the judges at the Nuremberg trial, the government itself financed this. The HD 17, my first airplane for the Reichswehr, had to be built in secrecy, playing cat-and-mouse with the Allied Commission on Aircraft Construction. The game was extremely dangerous for me. I could lose all or find myself under strict surveillance and constant supervision. I think fortune was on my side."

 

[Dynoman]

Interesting article on the Lipetsk site:

A Secret Aviation School

"For the chemical warfare experiments the Lipetsk workshop fitted airplanes with so-called aviation spray tanks (VAP). Aircraft such as the Albatros L 76s capable of carrying relatively large payloads were chosen for this task."

"The experiments began in 1926. I. S. Unshlikht reported the following to Stalin: "...The entire first part of the program is fulfilled. About 40 sorties accompanied by spraying the liquid from different altitudes were flown. A liquid with qualities analogous to those of mustard gas was used in the experiments. The experiments confirmed the full capability for aviation to employ toxic agents. Our specialists believe that, based on these experiments, it can be presumed that employment of mustard gas by aviation against enemy personnel and to contaminate the terrain and populated areas is entirely feasible from a technical point of view and is of great value." The experiments continued in 1927."

 

[hesham]

Hesham, there is a great book on German flight testing that has a chapter dedicated to Lipetsk. German Flight Test Centres to 1945 (2002 Midland Publishing).

I think its in my files,but the book I meant it is different and has more Infos.

 

[klem]

I think its in my files,but the book I meant it is different and has more Infos.

I think you mean this book : "Dimitri Alexejewitsch Sobolew-Deutsche Spuren in der sowjetischen Luftfahrtgeschichte- Die Teilnahme deutscher Firmen und Fachleute an der Luftfahrtentwicklung in der UdSSR". (page 74....Geheime deutsche Militärfliegerschule und Flugerprobungszentrum in Lipezk)

 

[Dynoman]

The Junkers J28 was an unbuilt aircraft project that was to supply the nascent German Air Force with a fighter and possibly destined for Lipetsk. It was derailed early after negations between Germany and the USSR had begun. It was to be based on the J21 with a BMW VI engine.

Junkers J28

Junkers J28 Story

hugojunkers.bplaced.net

 

[Dynoman]

Does anyone know what the Junkers R42 was? It was a design destined for construction in Fili, USSR for Russians? or for some other group (possibly Lipetsk?)

 

[hesham]

Does anyone know what the Junkers R42 was? It was a design destined for construction in Fili, USSR for Russians? or for some other group (possibly Lipetsk?)

Please see reply # 3.

 

[Dynoman]

Hesham, that's awesome! Apparently developed from the civilian airliner for the Russians as a bomber and torpedo plane variant.

 

[iverson]

I believe that the Ju22 was a derivative of the Ju21 two-seat reconnaissance aircraft that went into production for the Soviet air force. The Ju22 proved unsatisfactory. Both were built at the Junkers plant at Fili in the USSR. I've attached some of my old drawings on this topic.

 

[Dynoman]

Iverson, those are great drawings. I believe your drawing of the Rohrbach is on one of the pages that discusses Lipetsk above. The Fokker D-XIII drawing is particularly interesting. Fokker received requests from the Reichswehr for a modified DXI with the Napier Lion XI engine. The DXIII was the result as it was destined to provide fighter pilot training at Lipetsk with 7.92mm light machine guns in 1924, not long after the Treaty of Rapallo between Germany and the USSR. The letter identifiers that would have indicated national registration (D for Germany) was omitted.

 

[Dynoman]

The Heinkel HD37 was designed clandestinely for the German secret facility in the USSR, but the Reichswehr turned it down in favor of the Fokker DXIII. Heinkel then sold it to the Russians who licensed built the aircraft in the Soviet Union as the Polikarpov I-7.

 

[Dynoman]

A Scout Albatros L84 undergoing trials at Lipetsk in 1931.

 

[Dynoman]

The Russians have issues with writers who say that the German war machine was forged in the USSR. Despite the pact between the two the Russians suggest that their aim was to garner German military technology and align themselves with a socialist nation that might eventually have become a republic of the USSR due to the socialist and communist movements taking place in Germany.

https://en.topwar.ru/4015-mif-o-tom-chto-v-sssr-kovalsya-fashistskij-mech.html

 

[iverson]

...I believe your drawing of the Rohrbach is on one of the pages that discusses Lipetsk above.

I did not see the link. Can you provide a URL?

Thedrawings were originally done for a Chandelle articles, currently archived at http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n3/articles/lipetsk.html: "Planting the Dragon's Teeth: the German Air Combat School at Lipetsk (USSR) 1925-1930"

 

[iverson]

The Russians have issues with writers who say that the German war machine was forged in the USSR. Despite the pact between the two the Russians suggest that their aim was to garner German military technology and align themselves with a socialist nation that might eventually have become a republic of the USSR due to the socialist and communist movements taking place in Germany.

https://en.topwar.ru/4015-mif-o-tom-chto-v-sssr-kovalsya-fashistskij-mech.html

True. But they would say that. The German officers would likewise have said that they were merely exploiting the the rift between the USSR and the Western powers under the enemy-of-my-enemy principle, much as they had backed the Bolsheviks during the World War.

The truth is probably in between and much more concerned with narrow self-interest than with ideology. I very much doubt that the Soviets had many illusions about the likelihood of their guests fomenting a socialist revolution at home, given the German military's role in the Freikorps, the murders of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, and the overthrow of the actual , real-life Bavarian Peoples' Republic and Bavarian Soviet Republic.

When the Lipetzk arrangements were made, Stalin was already in a position of power. "Socialism in one country" (i.e., in the USSR, as opposed toTrotskyite international socialism) was becoming official dogma. The interests of the Russia and its Communist Party outweighed any interest in the word's working class as a whole. So accommodating German rightists came naturally, as would later Soviet efforts at suppressing the socialist and anarchist Left during the Spanish Republic (see Orwell's Homage to Catalonia) and the Molotov–Ribbentrop Non-Aggression Pact under which the USSR joined Germany in the dismemberment of Poland.

On the German side, the military was already well and truly committed to the far right. It was probably attracted more by the USSR's ongoing ability to defy the Allies and by the totalitarian nature of its government than by any Marxist-Leninist ideals that might still survive in Stalin's USSR. In a decade, they would be instrumental in making anti-communist, National Socialist totalitarianism a reality. In two decades they would invade Russia.

​

 

[Dynoman]

Iverson, the article from Planting the Dragon's Teeth is where I saw it. I accessed the article a few times while commenting on this thread.

One of the best accounts of the secret activity at Lipetsk I have is from Soviet Aircraft and Aviation 1917-1941 (pg 27-30) by Lennart Andersson.

Iverson, your explanation for German-Russian cooperation is very true. Ian Johnson, who wrote his dissertation on the matter, The Faustian Pact: Soviet-German Military Cooperation in the Interwar Period (2016), describes the hopes of German military planners to use the USSR to aid in their military rearmament and to possibly circumvent communism through the sale of materials and the purchase of military goods.

“We want to enter into friendly economic exchange with Russia to help Russia resume its internal development and undermine the very idea of the Soviet system by making sound alternatives available.” "Seeckt hoped to turn Russia into an ally through economic cooperation. Not only would such a course moderate communism in Russia, but it also might make Russia a source for raw materials in a future European war." (pg. 111 Faustian Pact).

 

[Steve Coates]

If anyone is interested a number of files have been digitised by the BA-MA Freiburg (Record Group RH 2-2 - Zusammenarbeit mit der Sowjetunion) and are downloadable.

 

[Arjen]

Iverson, those are great drawings. I believe your drawing of the Rohrbach is on one of the pages that discusses Lipetsk above. The Fokker D-XIII drawing is particularly interesting. Fokker received requests from the Reichswehr for a modified DXI with the Napier Lion XI engine. The DXIII was the result as it was destined to provide fighter pilot training at Lipetsk with 7.92mm light machine guns in 1924, not long after the Treaty of Rapallo between Germany and the USSR. The letter identifiers that would have indicated national registration (D for Germany) was omitted.

A clean scan of the Fokker D.XIII cutaway can be found here (7th image):

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/arjens-fokker-cutaways-collection.15830/#post-153890

 

[Dynoman]

@Steve Coates, thank you for the info! I searched BA-MA Freiburg site and found the Zusammenarbeit mit der Sowjetunion as a pdf file. The document had a section dedicated to German-Soviet collaborations during the 1924-1933 period. Unfortunately, it only had a few references to the aircraft. If you know any additional reference on their site let me know. I had difficulty locating anything else regarding the Lipetsk training/test facility.

 

[klem]

Regarding the R 42 the caption of the picture says ,"Built in the Swedish Junkers Limhamn branch as the K 30 (pictured), delivered to the USSR Air Force under the designation R 42 and flown there as the JuG-I". (Dimitri Alexejewitsch Sobolew-Deutsche Spuren in der sowjetischen Luftfahrtgeschichte- Die Teilnahme deutscher Firmen und Fachleute an der Luftfahrtentwicklung in der UdSSR.p38)

 

[Steve Coates]

@Steve Coates, thank you for the info! I searched BA-MA Freiburg site and found the Zusammenarbeit mit der Sowjetunion as a pdf file. The document had a section dedicated to German-Soviet collaborations during the 1924-1933 period. Unfortunately, it only had a few references to the aircraft. If you know any additional reference on their site let me know. I had difficulty locating anything else regarding the Lipetsk training/test facility.

I'm not at all sure which PDF you're talking about but as I mentioned in my post, there are several files in RH 2-2 which can be easily downloaded. Here's a link to 20 or so files to work through at your leisure:

https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/0933699c-f8ab-4a00-a5e0-f0e581a5985f/

Steve

 

[Dynoman]

Here's a link to 20 or so files to work through at your leisure

Steve, these are excellent!! Some of these files appear to have original photos (high quality) that were the source for various publications that include some of the aircraft and many of the facilities. Also in the files are many hand and typed documents and notes on the relationship between Junkers, the German military, and Russia from the early formation of the Lipetsk training center.

 

[hesham]

There is a book about that subject,but only indeed by Russian Language.

 

[Grzesio]

There's also a chapter about Lipetsk in this Russian book of A.B. Shirokorad (Russia, Germany, history of military cooperation).

 

[Justo Miranda]

Messerschmitt M.22 night fighter

 

[Dynoman]

The M22 was one of two biplane aircraft Messerschmitt designed for the RLM during this period. Messerschmitt had been blacklisted from building military aircraft by Erhard Milch (Secretary of Aviation), due to his belief that the poorly designed Messerschmitt's M20 was the cause of his friend and test pilot, Hans Hackmack's death. I'm not sure if this was tested at Lipetsk, however it was apart of the secret build up of RLM military aircraft prior to the 1933 chancellery of Hitler.

However, Messerschmitt's M23 (BFW M23), low wing sport aircraft, was flown at Lipetsk.

 

[Justo Miranda]

To circumvent the limitations imposed by the Treaty of Versailles, the German High Command negotiating a mutual assistance agreement with the Soviet Government that gave Germany use of Russian air base at Lipetsk between 1925 and 1930.

These secret facilities were initially used for the training of pilots with aircraft Fokker D.VII, D.XI and D. XIII acquired in Holland, but from 1926 they were also used to test new models of German aircraft, evading inspections of the Inter Allied Control Commission.

The tests were carried out with single-seat fighters Arado SD I, SD II, SD III, SSD I, Ar 64, Heinkel HD.37 and HD.38, two-seat attack fighters Albatros L.65, Heinkel HD.17, Junkers Ju 21 and A.35, two-seat reconnaissance airplanes Albatros L.78, Focke- Wulf S.39 and Heinkel HD.5, passenger airplanes Dornier B, Rohrbach Roland VIII and Junkers G.24 converted in bombers, experimental dive bombers Junkers K.47 and experimental chemical warfare airplanes Albatros L.76.

In the late 1920s the British firm Fairey Aviation Co. designed the first all-metal low-wing monoplane bomber, named Hendon, with 1,360 miles (2,188 Km) range.

The German answer was the NAKUJA specification Nachtjagd und Erkundungs Flugzeug (Night Fighter).

The project was commissioned to the firm BFW/Messerschmitt which proposed to modify its project of medium bomber M.22 adapting it for night fighting duties.

In November 1930 the Hendon made its first flight exceeding its own specification B.19/27 by 37 mph and by 16 mph the maximum speed of the German fighter.

The M.22 did not pass the prototype phase and BFW bankrupt in June 1931.

Messerschmitt M.22 technical data

Wingspan: 55.7 ft. (17 m), length: 44.6 ft. (13.6 m), height: 15.7 ft. (4.8 m), max weight: 8,380 lb. (3,800 kg), max speed: 137 mph (220 km/h), power plant: two Siemens-Halske Sh-20 air cooled radial engines rated at 500 hp. each.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-1

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-2

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-3

 

[kojotnemo]

Post-1

What book is this drawing from?
Regards

 

[Justo Miranda]

What book is this drawing from?
Regards

In my opinion the H.L firm could be Herbert Léonard's. This author published a book on dive bombers in 1997.

Amazon.fr

 

[kojotnemo]

In my opinion the H.L firm could be Herbert Léonard's. This author published a book on dive bombers in 1997.

Amazon.fr

Thank you for the information.
Regards
Piotr