Projected kittens for the Sdkfz 234 Puma ?

[JC Carbonel]

I am much surprised that for this most advanced vehicle, often regarded as one of the best armoured vehicles of WW2, I find no projected derivative.
All variants I know were all built

Sdkfz 234/1 (20mm in six-sided turret)
Sdkfz 234/2 (50mm in round turret)
Sdkfz 234/3 (75mm short barrel support vehicle)
Sdkfz 234/4 (75mm long barrel AT vehicle)
Sdkfz 234 (no sub-version) (20mm on pedestal mount)
Sdkfz 232 NA (shorter version, four-wheeled)

Seems to me that Flak (Kugelblitz turret) , PAW AT-Gun , Fla-R (Fohn cannisters) would be natural ?

So why nothing ? (or is it that I searched badly?)

JCC

 

[panzer1946]

Here are the ones I am aware of:
SdKfz 234/1 Hanglafette Turret (built)
SdKfz 234/1 A/A, 37mm (project)
SdKfz 234/2 Flak 38, 20mm (project)
SdKfz 234/2 “Puma” (built)
SdKfz 234/3 L/24, 75mm “Stummel” (built)
SdKfz 234/4 Pak 40, 75mm (built)
SdKfz 234/4 AK7B, 75mm (project)
SdKfz 234/- w/ Schweblefette 20mm (built)
SdKfz 234/- w/ “Luchs” turret (field modified)

It would be interesting to see the "Fohn" set in there or a drilling. Not sure the "Kugelblitz" turret would have enough room or if the chassis could handle the weight of it and the generator to rotate it)

-Tony

 

[JC Carbonel]

Thank you . some of these I am not aware of . Especially the one with a Luchs turret ????

Any pix ?

JCC

 

[panzer1946]

The photo of the SdKfz 234 with "Luchs" turret is in the PanzerWrecks book volume 2. I don't have it scanned in the comp, but here are 2 photos of the Schwebelafette 234 for you.
-Tony

 

[JC Carbonel]

thank you. I'll check Tech Intell this evening

JCC

 

[Rickshaw]

Sdkfz 232 NA (shorter version, four-wheeled)

This one I've never heard of. Do you have any information on it?

 

[JC Carbonel]

I had not my books on hand when I wrote this so I "created" this description. It is a replacement for the Sdkfz 222 (hence the NA for Neu Art) but using 234 parts. I'll check later the correct designation

JCC

 

[Petrus]

In various sources the four-wheeled armoured car is being reffered to as 'leichter Panzerspähwagen für Tropen' or 'leichter Panzerspähwagen 4 Rad Tropen', which reflects the vehicle's role as an armoured reconnaissance car for German troops in Northern Africa (perhaps "NA" in other designations stand for "North Africa" rather than "Neue Art").

Here you've got some images of the vehicle as well as what Thomas L. Jentz wrote on this in "Panzer Tracts No. 13. Panzerspaehwagen".

Best regards,
Piotr

 

[Rickshaw]

Thank for that!

 

[panzer1946]

The 4 wheeler version was made by Bussing-NAG and I have seem it on video somewhere online. It is seen crossing a railroad track. AI will have to see if I can find it again for us all.

-Tony

 

[Jemiba]

From W.Oswald "Kraftfahrzeuge und Panzer der Reichswehr, Wehrmacht und Bundeswehr",
a photo of the Achtrad-Panzer-Funkwagen Sd-Kfz.263 (8-wheeled armoured RT car), armed
only with a machine gun and the "Waffenwagen" (armed car, with 2cm KwK) with additional
protection against anti-tank guns at the bow.

 

[lastdingo]

Seems to me that Flak (Kugelblitz turret) , PAW AT-Gun , Fla-R (Fohn cannisters) would be natural ?

So why nothing ? (or is it that I searched badly?)

JCC

The vehicle was much too expensive (RM 53k), especially in comparison to the medium halftrack (RM 23k).
A high cost platform has difficulties to justify its employment in many roles.
Think about your SPAAG version; would it have been the equivalent of a fourth of a fighter? If not, then it would have been cost-inefficient.

 

[robunos]

SdKfz 234/4 AK7B, 75mm (project)

From 'Panzer Tracts 20-2,Aufklarungs-, Beobachtungs-, Und Flak-Panzer (Reconnaissance, Observation, and Anti-Aircraft).
A drawing of the Sd.Kfz 234/2 with the 'Aufkarerkanone 7 B 84', on page 20-79.
The following description is on page 20-76, along with the drawing of the gun and mounting :-

"A new mount was designed for the 7.5cm Kanone L/48... to convert it into the 'Aufklarerkanone 7 B 84' for installation on the... Sd.Kfz 234. The casing for the 7.5cm Kw.K. 40 was shorter and fatter then the 7.5cm Pak 40, making it easier to handle and store in the confined spaces of an armoured vehicle. It could be traversed through an arc of 40o ( 20o left/right of centre); elevation was -8 to +16o. Of the four AK 7 B 84 produced, one was modified and test fired at Kummersdorf on 18th January 1945.
As announced on 20th February, development of this gun was to be completed in April 1945."

The same drawing of the vehicle is also used on page 6 of 'Puma and other German Heavy Reconnaissance Vehicles', Horst Scheibert, Shiffer.

SdKfz 234/1 A/A, 37mm (project)

The drawing of this from page 34 of 'Puma and other German Heavy Reconnaissance Vehicles', Horst Scheibert, Shiffer. This also appears to be originally from a 'Panzer Tracts' book, but which one I don't know...


cheers,
Robin.

 

[Rickshaw]

SdKfz 234/1 A/A, 37mm (project)

Does anybody know which 37mm gun was to be mounted?

 

[panzer1946]

This is a conversion I did in 1/72 scale using the Hasegawa Puma and a ModellTrans Schwebelafette mount.
-Tony

 

[robunos]

Does anybody know which 37mm gun was to be mounted?

Sorry, no more info from my sources......


cheers,
Robin.

 

[CostasTT]

SdKfz 234/1 A/A, 37mm (project)

Does anybody know which 37mm gun was to be mounted?

The FLAK 43 would be a reasonable candidate.

 

[panzer1946]

Sdkfz 222 NA (shorter version, four-wheeled)

This one I've never heard of. Do you have any information on it?

Here is the Sd.Kfz. 222 Neu Artikle (Na)

 

[Newtonk]

I’d of thought that at some point, someone would try mount a mortar in a 234, either in an open topped car a la /3, or an enclosed turret, a la /2. Maybe the 81mm or 120mm. Be good to see either way.

 

[riggerrob]

What?
No wheeled APC?
Germany suffered infantry shortages during both world wars.

 

[h42]

Here are the ones I am aware of:
SdKfz 234/1 Hanglafette Turret (built)
SdKfz 234/1 A/A, 37mm (project)
SdKfz 234/2 Flak 38, 20mm (project)
SdKfz 234/2 “Puma” (built)
SdKfz 234/3 L/24, 75mm “Stummel” (built)
SdKfz 234/4 Pak 40, 75mm (built)
SdKfz 234/4 AK7B, 75mm (project)
SdKfz 234/- w/ Schweblefette 20mm (built)
SdKfz 234/- w/ “Luchs” turret (field modified)

It would be interesting to see the "Fohn" set in there or a drilling. Not sure the "Kugelblitz" turret would have enough room or if the chassis could handle the weight of it and the generator to rotate it)

-Tony

The kugelblitz surely would've been quite effective but there was a serious problem Wich was that the turret needed the diameter of the tiger turret, Wich it was 2.1m (around 7ft)

 

[h42]

The FLAK 43 would be a reasonable candidate.

Not sizeable

 

[h42]

Here is the Sd.Kfz. 222 Neu Artikle (Na)

It isn't the panzerspahwagen fur troppen?

 

[h42]

The 4 wheeler version was made by Bussing-NAG and I have seem it on video somewhere online. It is seen crossing a railroad track. AI will have to see if I can find it again for us all.

-Tony

I need to see it so badly