Project 148-A: Spain's Mogador Half-Sibling

A

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Designed in April 1942 after a contract was designed for designs of the machinery from the Mogador class, Project 148-A was also similar in dimensions, though with a deeper draft.

The design had a profile extremely similar to Mogador, but with much enhanced AA, as well as dual purpose 120mm main guns [Twin mounts, of an unknown type, no caliber or elevation specified, most likely the 120mm NG53]

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Source: "Decenio el la Construccion Naval Militar en el Ferrol 1936-1946" by Jose Maria Gonzalez-Llanos
 
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To me it looks more like a German Spahkreuzer 1938 and a Mogador had a baby, although in design and concept it's far closer to the French ship.
 
I agree, it has a lot of Sphakreuzer 1938 vibes. But 42 knots? That's a LOT and somehow don't think they going to be able to get that plus all the armament on one hull.
 
eltf177 said:
I agree, it has a lot of Sphakreuzer 1938 vibes. But 42 knots? That's a LOT and somehow don't think they going to be able to get that plus all the armament on one hull.
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That powerplant was only designed for 39 knots on the Mogadors, but it hit 43.45kt on trials. So.... honestly, it's not out of the question.
 
In the last paragraph, starting from "March 1949" it is told that the project was cancelled and replaced by a new one for nine units conceived at the same "Ateliers".
That new class should be much less ambitious at only 1.250 Ton. Supposedly there are more details in the book and possibly a drawing?

Kingpin6100 do you happy a copy of the book? In that case, are there many more unbuilt projects described?
 
Antonio said:
In the last paragraph, starting from "March 1949" it is told that the project was cancelled and replaced by a new one for nine units conceived at the same "Ateliers".
That new class should be much less ambitious at only 1.250 Ton. Supposedly there are more details in the book and possibly a drawing?

Kingpin6100 do you happy a copy of the book? In that case, are there many more unbuilt projects described?
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I think the new class were the 3000 tons Oquendos: 9 planned, much closer in specification to the Mogador like preliminary and also the timeline corresponds.
 
The "New Class" are the Audaz class destroyers, in their original configuration.

I don't have a full PDF of the book, but the books is "Decenio el la Construccion naval militar en el ferrol 1936 1946" by Jose Maria Gonzalez-Llanos
 
The post war Audaz class were based on the French Le Fier class. The lead ship Le Fier was laid down in 1939 at the "Ateliers et Chantiers de Bretagne" yard and they were building the first 12 ships for the French Navy. That yard also built Volta, Mogador's sister.
 
For what it's worth, the guns on the drawing look like the 120mm/50 NG53 mount, which was a Spanish design. The guns were essentially a lengthened version of the Vickers Mark F that were on the Mendez Nunez as rearmed, and the mount was an enclosed twin gunhouse with the guns in a common cradle. The 'NG' designation was meant to show that the guns were a twin mounting, not a true double turret [Naval Twin, or Naval Gemelo in spanish].

The NG48 was able to elevate to +90/-5, and could fire at 15-17 RPM per barrel, and had a traverse speed of 18 degrees per second.

The guns were meant to be mounted on the Pizarro class frigates and Oquendo class destroyers as originally designed, and these ships were ordered in 1941/1942 respectively, so it is not unreasonable that such guns were also planned for design 148-A, although the design does not specify which 120mm guns were planned for it. Even though the mounts only entered service in the late 40s/early 50s, that was largely due to the glacial pace of development due to rebuilding from the Spanish Civil War combined with little access to high quality materials- at least, until the Cold War set in.

Pizzaro.jpg

Pizzaro showing her rear NG48 mounts.
 
This project of posted seems to be of a somewhat improved design as I have data on the Project 148 (Without "A" ) which dates back to 1939:
3060tons standard, 4221tons full load
131 x 12,5 x 3x54m
78km/h and 13.900km range
90.000shp 2 shafts
4x2 120mm probably Vickers Mark F?
6x2 37mm
1x1 20mm
2x4 533mm Torpedoes
30 Depth Charges
 
Kingpin6100 said:
Toryu said:
Made by me:
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Ah, you're here as well :) It was your thread on a Spanish forum that inspired me to go looking for this and other projects
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Yes. I have been in this forum for a short time. I have always been interested in Spanish projects.

Tzoli said:
You are the one who made the other Spanish never-were designs as well many years ago? Mostly the Cruisers?
The Project 124, 131 and 138 variants?
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Yes, I did them years ago. I have to clarify that the cruise ship 131 is inspired by a real project, but the drawing is my imagination.
 
Does anybody have drawings of the Audaz (1950's) class Destroyers, preferably the late later ships with the single 3"/50 RF Mark 22 guns?
Or the Modernized 1960's Álava class? Or the Atrevida class Corvettes?
Yes I'm hunting for a drawing for the open single 3"/50 RF Mark 22 mounting
 
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Kingpin6100 said:
Designed in April 1942 after a contract was designed for designs of the machinery from the Mogador class, Project 148-A was also similar in dimensions, though with a deeper draft.

The design had a profile extremely similar to Mogador, but with much enhanced AA, as well as dual purpose 120mm main guns [Twin mounts, of an unknown type, no caliber or elevation specified]

View attachment 647094

View attachment 647095
View attachment 647096

Source: "Decenio el la Construccion Naval Militar en el Ferrol 1936-1946" by Jose Maria Gonzalez-Llanos
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That big a DD and it only has 8 torpedoes? So those are 4 twin banks then. OTOH the AAA is pretty good for the time, especially a for non-belligerent nation.
 
Don't know if these images help. Credit Almanacco Navale 1968-69 (top two), and Weyer's Flottentaschenbuch 1964 (bottom three).
 
While we are at it, I would like to know more about these two-Project 115 and Project 113. I especially am looking for more on Project 113 as she looks more like the flotilla type destroyer rather than the big leaders in this thread.

Project 115...preliminary to the 148?
 

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ptdockyard said:
While we are at it, I would like to know more about these two-Project 115 and Project 113. I especially am looking for more on Project 113 as she looks more like the flotilla type destroyer rather than the big leaders in this thread.

Project 115...preliminary to the 148?
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Sorry, very late on this one. I believe Pr. 113's forward firing angles on the X turret are likely better, but the blueprints say what they say. Vickers 40mms on both, and definitely Italian 20mms on Pr. 115.

I'm planning to do a full thread on the DD projects from ~1935 through the Oquendos.

Source is the same article as in the original post. Available online here: https://sectormaritimo.es/wp-content/uploads/1949/194903.pdf
 

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