Preliminary design for Netherlands Cruiser DeRuyter with 8" guns

[ptdockyard]

Both the Warship Profile #40 and Willigenburg's "Dutch Warships of World War II" mention preliminary concepts of the cruiser DeRuyter with 20cm/8" guns. I have been unable to find any drawings or images of these preliminaries. Can anyone share one or know where to look?

Dave G

 

[Tzoli]

My friend has info on and probably sket ch drawings too. But as he moved recently his books are not yet organized but yes such designs exists

 

[Sanglune]

Both the Warship Profile #40 and Willigenburg's "Dutch Warships of World War II" mention preliminary concepts of the cruiser DeRuyter with 20cm/8" guns. I have been unable to find any drawings or images of these preliminaries. Can anyone share one or know where to look?

Dave G

Better late than never I guess.

I came across your answer last week and whilst cleaning tabs on my phone I found this question again.

There were indeed 20cm proposals - There were 3 submissions to the prized essay contest and two of them pertained 8" cruisers. Both of these were published in Marineblad. Coster came with a 8500t cruiser at 175m length and 30kts and options for higher speeds, a belt of 100mm, deck of 50mm, two triple 20,3cm guns, three quadruple torp launchers and some more info I can translate if you need so.

The 2nd design was by Hoffmann and came at 10.160t std, 14.000t full and p.m. 180m length and 30kts full load, a belt of 150mm and deck of 50/75. Same two triple 20,3cm guns but no torpedoes. This design also came with drawings.

Moreover, both these folks came together and combined their efforts in making a third proposal (though not entered in the contest I think). Which came at 8.000t std, 9.000t trial, 175m length, 32 kts, 100mm belt, 40/60 deck and was armed with four superfiring twin 15cms. No torpedoes again. And again, there were drawings attached.

I hope this helps.

sources:
Coster: Marineblad jrg. 45 No. 4 (1930) - https://www.delpher.nl/nl/tijdschriften/view?identifier=dts:2565004:mpeg21:0002
Hoffmann: Marineblad jrg. 45 No. 2 (1930) - https://www.delpher.nl/nl/tijdschriften/view?identifier=dts:2565002:mpeg21:0001
Compromis: Marineblad jrg. 45 No. 6 (1930) - https://www.delpher.nl/nl/tijdschriften/view?query=&coll=dts&identifier=dts:2565006:mpeg21:0021

 

[Hardrada55]

Many thanks Sanglune!

 

[ptdockyard]

Thank you very much! These are perfect!

Dave G

 

[Tzoli]

Thanks. I've gathered the data from the pages. It is not clear the date of these designs as the papers are from 1930 but mentions of dates 1927 and 29.
The "Washington Armoured Cruiser" Design:
171,5 (pp) x 179,5 (wl) x 183m (oa) x 19,8m x 6,5m
10.160tons standard, 14.000tons full load
150mm Belt, 50mm Deck, 75mm Slopes
76.000shp, 4 shaft Steam Turbines, 56-60km/h - 30-32,3knots, 6.500nm / 12.000km range at 20-22knots
2x3 203mm, likely SK C/34 or BL Mk VIII
6x1 105mm, likely SK C/28
8x1 40mm, likely Bofors m/32 or QF Mk II Pom-pom
8x 12,7mm likely M2 Browning MG

The 203mm guns if 1930 is the design date suggests German SK C/34 guns but an unknown 203mm Bofors or the well known British 8" guns aren't out of the possibility.

The 8.000ton Light Cruiser design:
175 (wl???) x 16,84m x 5,53m
8.000tons standard
100mm Belt, 40mm Deck, 60mm Slopes
76.000shp, 4 shaft Steam Turbines, 56-60km/h - 30-32,3knots, 6.500nm / 12.000km range at 20-22knots
4x2 15cm, likely 149mm/50 Wilton-Fijenoord Mark 9 or 152mm/55 Bofors m/30
6x1 88mm, likely SK C/30 or Bofors m/25 or m/32
8x1 40mm, likely Bofors m/32 or QF Mk II Pom-pom
8x 12,7mm likely M2 Browning MG

 

[Sanglune]

Thanks. I've gathered the data from the pages. It is not clear the date of these designs as the papers are from 1930 but mentions of dates 1927 and 29.
The "Washington Armoured Cruiser" Design:
171,5 (pp) x 179,5 (wl) x 183m (oa) x 19,8m x 6,5m
10.160tons standard, 14.000tons full load
150mm Belt, 50mm Deck, 75mm Slopes
76.000shp, 4 shaft Steam Turbines, 56-60km/h - 30-32,3knots, 6.500nm / 12.000km range at 20-22knots
2x3 203mm, likely SK C/34 or BL Mk VIII
6x1 105mm, likely SK C/28
8x1 40mm, likely Bofors m/32 or QF Mk II Pom-pom
8x 12,7mm likely M2 Browning MG

The 203mm guns if 1930 is the design date suggests German SK C/34 guns but an unknown 203mm Bofors or the well known British 8" guns aren't out of the possibility.

The 8.000ton Light Cruiser design:
175 (wl???) x 16,84m x 5,53m
8.000tons standard
100mm Belt, 40mm Deck, 60mm Slopes
76.000shp, 4 shaft Steam Turbines, 56-60km/h - 30-32,3knots, 6.500nm / 12.000km range at 20-22knots
4x2 15cm, likely 149mm/50 Wilton-Fijenoord Mark 9 or 152mm/55 Bofors m/30
6x1 88mm, likely SK C/30 or Bofors m/25 or m/32
8x1 40mm, likely Bofors m/32 or QF Mk II Pom-pom
8x 12,7mm likely M2 Browning MG

Can you perhaps tell me the sources of those pages?

The former, Washington Armoured Cruiser design, has articles in Marineblad 45-2 (linked earlier). I've found further aticles by the author, Hoffmann, in "Het Schip" issues 1930-03 and 1930-04 as well as a translation in Ingeniera Naval september 1930.

Meanwhile, about the armaments, in Het Schip 1930-10, where he answers a reply on his article of 1930-03/04 he states

Ik teeken hier meteen nog aan, dat ik in mijn artikel geen Boforsgeschut gespecificeerd heb. Slechts heb ik een dankbaar gebruik gemaakt van door die firma welwillend ter beschikking gestelde gegevens, wat iets anders is.

TL: I'm adressing quickly that in my article I've never specified Bofors armament. Only that I thankfully made use of the by the company's friendly given values, which is something else.

It may very well be that he never intended on specifying the exact armaments; but was simply using given values from Bofors in his calculations.

 

[Tzoli]

About the Washington Armoured Cruiser:
In the document with the title:
TIENDUIZEND TONS STANDAARD.

Pages 23-25, 27 (pdf document page)

For the Light Cruiser:
In the document with the title:
Mededeeling van de Redactie!

Pages 22-23 (pdf document page)

 

[awhalen61]

"Suecia también entró en la competencia y, en este caso, la dificultad parece haber estribado en los excesivos costos. Completada la gama de ofertas recibidas por la Armada de Chile a fines de los años '30, la alternativa holandesa paració ser la más plausible. Esta consistía en unidades similares a la clase De Zeven Provincien, con la opción de adaptarlas a cañones de 203mm (8 pulgadas), proporcionados por la firma sueca Bofors"

Buques de Guerra Chilenos, pages 436 and 438.

Translation: "[About Chile in the purchase of cruises] Sweden also entered the competition and, in this case, the difficulty seems to have been the excessive costs. Having completed the range of offers received by the Chilean Navy in the late 1930s, the Dutch alternative appeared to be the most plausible. This consisted of units similar to the De Zeven Provincien class, with the option of adapting them to 203mm (8-inch) guns, provided by the Swedish firm Bofors"

Some interesting information from COLDOWN.