Pre-war Lorraine engines

[tallguy]

Looking for any info on the Lorraine Eider

 

[Hardrada55]

Here is what little info I have on the Lorraine Eider engine. I always think of it as kind of a Belgian Mikulin M-34 type engine.

 

[fortrena]

From the looks of it, a (fully functional?) prototype of the Eider existed no later than February, as it is shown in that issue of the French monthly L'Aéronautique. The specs mentioned ithere and in the December 1931 issue were slightly different from those above (bore: 170 mm - stroke: 165 mm -- displacement: ca 44.9 l (ca 2,740 cu in!) -- nominal power: 900 ch -- equivalent power (?): 1,050 ch -- weight: 580 / 595 kg or 635 kg in the case of a geared engine).

The Eider may, I repeat may, have used some ideas developed in an (unbuilt?) engine intended for use on the seaplanes France wanted to enter in the 1929 edition of the Schneider Cup trophy, a competition won by a Supermarine S.6. Not one French machine took part in that competition.

The December 1934 issue of L'Aéronautique mentioned a 595 kg geared and supercharged Eider with a longer stroke (170 mm) able to develop 1,050 ch at 3,500 m.

By November 1936, the weight of the Eider, which by then was referred to as the 12Q Eider, had gone up to 650 kg while power was said to be in the 1,000 to 1,200 ch range. One or more engines might been under test as late as 1937.

The Eider was seemingly mentioned in conjunction with the Amiot 144, an unbuilt 1936 or so spruced up version with retractable landing gear of the very angular Amiot 143 multiseat combat aircraft / bomber. It might also have been mentioned in conjunction with an unbuilt Amiot transatlantic flying boat airliner.

 

[Apophenia]

...The Eider was seemingly mentioned in conjunction with the Amiot 144, an unbuilt 1936 or so spruced up version with retractable landing gear of the very angular Amiot 143 multiseat combat aircraft / bomber. It might also have been mentioned in conjunction with an unbuilt Amiot transatlantic flying boat airliner.

I believe that the Lorraine 12Q00 was intended to power the production-version Amiot 140M (to have been built as the Amiot 141 BCR) rather than the retractable-gear 144. Interesting to see the differing stroke and resulting displacement. Power sounds about right, though - Eiders for the Amiot 140M were to produce ~890 hp (not the more optimistic 1,000 hp @ 4,000 m at 2,350 rpm listed in those company tables).

a Belgian Mikulin M-34

I'm curious, what was the Belgian connection with Lorraine engines?

 

[fortrena]

While I readily admit that the Eider could have been intended for use on the Amiot 140-M, according to the August 2nd, 1935 issue of the French weekly L'Aéro, it was seemingly mentioned in conjunction with the Amiot 144 as well.

Belgium-wise, I cannot find the trace of a factory operated by the Société des moteurs et automobiles Lorraine in that country. I could of course be wrong.

 

[Hardrada55]

No, you're correct. Lorraine-Dietrich and later Lorraine and even later SNCM were, of course, French. I always associate Lorraine and the Belgian Koolhoven FK-55 because it used a Lorraine Petrel and later the Lorraine Sterna.

 

[burunduk]

Here is what little info I have on the Lorraine Eider engine. I always think of it as kind of a Belgian Mikulin M-34 type engine.

Mikulin is not Belgian, but Soviet designer.

"M-34" and "Eider" are very different engines. They differ in technical details and in sizes. Bore*stroke for "Eider" are 170*170 mm, but for "M-34" 165*190 mm.

 

[Arjen]

<snip>I always associate Lorraine and the Belgian Koolhoven FK-55 because it used a Lorraine Petrel and later the Lorraine Sterna.

Koolhoven - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dutch, not Belgian.