Potential sale of ULA

[Flyaway]

Looks like ULA could be up for sale this year. Blue Origin would seem the natural purchasers but I am not sure that would be such a good thing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630974915674243082

View: https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1630974915674243082

NEWS: United Launch Alliance is likely to be sold this year. The potential sale has not been disclosed publicly, but three sources confirmed to Ars that potential buyers have been contacted about the opportunity.

Sources say prominent US rocket-maker United Launch Alliance is up for sale

The potential sale of ULA comes with many questions for a buyer.

arstechnica.com

From the article:

In response to a request for comment to Boeing and Lockheed, the companies issued the following statement: "Consistent with our corporate practice, Boeing/Lockheed Martin doesn’t comment on potential market rumors or speculation about financial activities."

 

[Michel Van]

It's bit strange that The Boeing Company and Lockheed Martin would try to sell ULA...

Potential buyers:
SpaceX - no way, Musk build the biggest rocket ever, why he need ULA ?
Boeing Defense, Space and Security, a Subdivison of Boeing, it would make sense.
Northrop/Grumman - hell yeah, they would buy ULA
Blue Origin - so crazy it sound, they need ULA Vulcan, until vapourware New Glenn is ready

others:
General Dynamics - biggest defence contractor in USA.
Raytheon Technologies.

Angry Astronaut on matter

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXUtTTdgyaY

 

[Flyaway]

Of the two current owners LM are far more likely to buy out Boeing than the other way round.

 

[Michel Van]

Of the two current owners LM are far more likely to buy out Boeing than the other way round.

it would be realistic, if ULA became part of Boeing Defense, Space and Security.
They responsible for defense and aerospace products and services, inside the Boeing company.

 

[Flyaway]

Of the two current owners LM are far more likely to buy out Boeing than the other way round.

it would be realistic, if ULA became part of Boeing Defense, Space and Security.
They responsible for defense and aerospace products and services, inside the Boeing company.

LM aren’t the ones who need the capital.

 

[martinbayer]

To me, there is really nothing strange at all about trying to sell off ULA in the face of SpaceX competition - am I missing something here?

 

[FighterJock]

It is sad that ULA are being sold, I too can see Boeing Missiles and Space being a potential buyer.

 

[Michel Van]

To me, there is really nothing strange at all about trying to sell off ULA in the face of SpaceX competition- am I missing something here?

if the rumor are true
Seems either Boeing or Lockheed Martin not want to finance ULA anymore
Since ULA was founded by B & LM as they put their Launcher together in One external Company.
Are there any indication in shift in Management at B & LM leaving the Aerospace or launch business ?

 

[Flyaway]

To me, there is really nothing strange at all about trying to sell off ULA in the face of SpaceX competition- am I missing something here?

if the rumor are true
Seems either Boeing or Lockheed Martin not want to finance ULA anymore
Since ULA was founded by B & LM as they put their Launcher together in One external Company.
Are there any indication in shift in Management at B & LM leaving the Aerospace or launch business ?

Vulcan was effectively financed by the US military rather than either of the parent companies.

 

[FighterJock]

To me, there is really nothing strange at all about trying to sell off ULA in the face of SpaceX competition- am I missing something here?

if the rumor are true
Seems either Boeing or Lockheed Martin not want to finance ULA anymore
Since ULA was founded by B & LM as they put their Launcher together in One external Company.
Are there any indication in shift in Management at B & LM leaving the Aerospace or launch business ?

Vulcan was effectively financed by the US military rather than either of the parent companies.

So what are the chances of the US Military taking over ULA?

 

[TomS]

So what are the chances of the US Military taking over ULA?

Nil. DoD definitely does not want to be in that business and probably is not legally allowed to compete with commercial providers. And remember that even though DoD supported the development of Vulcan, ULA still has a lot of commercial and non-military civil (e.g., NASA) launch business. Amazon's Kuiper satcom project is probably the single largest Vulcan customer right now, with 38 booked launches.

 

[FighterJock]

So what are the chances of the US Military taking over ULA?

Nil. DoD definitely does not want to be in that business and probably is not legally allowed to compete with commercial providers. And remember that even though DoD supported the development of Vulcan, ULA still has a lot of commercial and non-military civil (e.g., NASA) launch business. Amazon's Kuiper satcom project is probably the single largest Vulcan customer right now, with 38 booked launches.

So if the US Military does not want to be in the rocket business then how about NASA or falling that even SpaceX?

 

[TomS]

So what are the chances of the US Military taking over ULA?

Nil. DoD definitely does not want to be in that business and probably is not legally allowed to compete with commercial providers. And remember that even though DoD supported the development of Vulcan, ULA still has a lot of commercial and non-military civil (e.g., NASA) launch business. Amazon's Kuiper satcom project is probably the single largest Vulcan customer right now, with 38 booked launches.

So if the US Military does not want to be in the rocket business then how about NASA or falling that even SpaceX?

NASA really wants out of the launcher business -- hence all the Commercial Cargo, Crew, and other initiatives. SLS is enforced and they would probably prefer not to be doing it if they could avoid it.

And why would SpaceX be allowed to buy their largest competitor? They'd just kill Vulcan and have an effective monopoly on US sovereign launch (SLS doesn't count).

I suspect Raytheon might be interested. They bought Orbital-ATK recently, and ULA seems like it might be a logical extension.

 

[yasotay]

Both Boieng and LMCO are cutting. Neither wanted to assume full ownership, so they both agreed to sell it, probably as a means to retain other segments of their teams that might otherwise have been reduced or terminated.

Would not be surprised to see another consortium make a bid. Likely elements who are already heavily into space efforts.

Out of my lane of expertise for sure.

 

[FighterJock]

So what are the chances of the US Military taking over ULA?

Nil. DoD definitely does not want to be in that business and probably is not legally allowed to compete with commercial providers. And remember that even though DoD supported the development of Vulcan, ULA still has a lot of commercial and non-military civil (e.g., NASA) launch business. Amazon's Kuiper satcom project is probably the single largest Vulcan customer right now, with 38 booked launches.

So if the US Military does not want to be in the rocket business then how about NASA or falling that even SpaceX?

NASA really wants out of the launcher business -- hence all the Commercial Cargo, Crew, and other initiatives. SLS is enforced and they would probably prefer not to be doing it if they could avoid it.

And why would SpaceX be allowed to buy their largest competitor? They'd just kill Vulcan and have an effective monopoly on US sovereign launch (SLS doesn't count).

I suspect Raytheon might be interested. They bought Orbital-ATK recently, and ULA seems like it might be a logical extension.

Forgot about Raytheon TomS, that would be a good idea I would think.

 

[Flyaway]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669384383340347424

View: https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1669384383340347424

My conversations yielded some interesting fruit on deals, with sources talking about ULA continuing to be shopped around, $BALL putting subsidiary Ball Aerospace up for sale, and that “everything’s on the table” for Boeing’s space portfolio. $BA

Investing in Space: Bankers and insiders say M&A action is heating up

The space sector has seen a variety of mergers and acquisitions since the start of the year, but the deal-making is only heating up.

www.cnbc.com

 

[martinbayer]

Truly sickening to apparently see the two supposedly preeminent aerospace conglomerates of the United States trying to divest themselves from launch vehicles, but not really that surprising given the existence of SpaceX...

 

[publiusr]

Profits before progress is behind that too.

 

[TomcatViP]

Seems Blue Origin and Cerberus have/are ready to launch[ed] bid for teh acquisition:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/dea...ng-buy-united-launch-alliance-wsj-2023-12-21/ '


Kudo @Flyaway for having the flair to start this topic.

 

[Flyaway]

Textron would probably be the best fit for them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1737848526682607927

View: https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1737848526682607927

Wall Street Journal confirms my reporting from last month: Sale of ULA is near. Bidders are Blue Origin, a private equity fund and Textron (the company I did not name in my report).

wsj.com/business/billi…

 

[Archibald]

Blue Origin would make sense, it would all of sudden provide them with one, if not three rockets (Vulcan, Atlas V, Delta IV). Jeff Bezos would have a golden opportunity of catching back with SpaceX after more than a decade lost.

 

[Michel Van]

Textron would be interesting
There are Big industrial conglomerate with large Aviation section.
like the Bell helicopter, Beechcraft and Cessna brands and Lycoming Engines.
ULA fit perfect in Textron, making it big player in US Aerospace industry.

This private equity fund, why do I have bad feeling about them ?
Sound they are those kind of fund that maximise there profit,
means ULA management is replace by finance "expert" who have zero knowledge on Aerospace business...

 

[Byeman]

Blue Origin would make sense, it would all of sudden provide them with one, if not three rockets (Vulcan, Atlas V, Delta IV). Jeff Bezos would have a golden opportunity of catching back with SpaceX after more than a decade lost.

There is only one Delta IV left and the remaining Altas Vs have been spoken for (no more sales of them).

 

[Byeman]

Profits before progress is behind that too.

And that is how a business works

 

[indicisivedivide]

Textron would be interesting
There are Big industrial conglomerate with large Aviation section.
like the Bell helicopter, Beechcraft and Cessna brands and Lycoming Engines.
ULA fit perfect in Textron, making it big player in US Aerospace industry.

This private equity fund, why do I have bad feeling about them ?
Sound they are those kind of fund that maximise there profit,
means ULA management is replace by finance "expert" who have zero knowledge on Aerospace business...

If Bezos desires then he will buy it. Looking forward to him pulling supply of engines to buy ULA at barrel bottom prices.

 

[Byeman]

If Bezos desires then he will buy it. Looking forward to him pulling supply of engines to buy ULA at barrel bottom prices.

Not possible

 

[Richard N]

Textron should buy ULA for at least national security reasons to prevent Blue Organ from infecting ULA with their special quality of being able to spend 23+ years of never achieving anything significant in real space, which means putting payloads into orbit. BO has never seemed to be in a hurry to accomplish anything.

Textron is a veteran aerospace company that has put aircraft and helicopters into the air for years. They are a real business that reliably meets schedules and gets product out the door.

BO is years late on the engines they promised ULA and could cripple ULA's whole business. The Kuiper satellite people voted with their feet to SpaceX when it came to getting their constellation up. Who knows when or if they would have gotten there waiting on BO.

 

[publiusr]

Certainly a sober minded lot.
But how imaginative?

 

[Flyaway]

It seems Cerebus wouldn’t be a good purchaser judging by what they did to other companies like Chrysler & Remington. Mind you they also brought Stratolaunch and resurrected them.

 

[Flyaway]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760435734023164411

View: https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1760435734023164411

"two sources told Ars that Blue Origin is nearing the purchase of ULA. The sources said they have not personally seen any signed agreements, but they expect the sale to be announced within a month or two."

Blue Origin has emerged as the likely buyer for United Launch Alliance

Pairing of two launch companies could provide more robust competition to SpaceX.

arstechnica.com

 

[Flyaway]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1824529078830928101

View: https://twitter.com/joroulette/status/1824529078830928101

Boeing and Lockheed Martin are in talks to sell United Launch Alliance to Sierra Space, per two sources. w/@MichaelStone

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-lockheed-martin-talks-sell-ula-sierra-space-2024-08-16/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1824533837541675503

View: https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1824533837541675503

I have heard this as well. According to a source, the talks may break down over valuation however. Parents want more than potential buyers think ULA is worth.

 

[publiusr]

Now, once Sierra Space forks over the money--could Bezos refuse to sell them engines and crater them?

A sure-fire way to kill a rival company without resorting to lawfare.

 

[TomS]

Now, once Sierra Space forks over the money--could Bezos refuse to sell them engines and crater them?

A sure-fire way to kill a rival company without resorting to lawfare.

ULA would have had the same concerns about BO as a supplier and would have surely built in contractual guarantees to prevent it from happening. ULA being bought (whether by Sierra Space or someone else) will not change that contract between ULA and BO.

I think more worrisome would be the possibility of BO simply ceasing to exist, if Bezos ever just gives up on it. If I were negotiating the contract, I'd have required an option for ULA to buy the BE-4 production capability if BO ever decides to end it or go out of business altogether.

 

[Archibald]

One thing is sure: BOULA would be an utterly ridiculous name... "boule à Toto !"

 

[Flyaway]

I imagine the parent companies over valuing ULA is probably why we heard no more of BO buying it. It wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t Boeing in particular looking for a big cash payout.

 

[TomcatViP]

Just wondering, wouldn´t ULA staff members be willing more to reintegrate LM or Boeing than risking themselves into the less stable Sierra Space?

 

[Byeman]

Just wondering, wouldn´t ULA staff members be willing more to reintegrate LM or Boeing than risking themselves into the less stable Sierra Space?

No, because they were no longer Boeing or LM employees. Their employment with Boeing or LM ended with the formation of ULA. And what would they move into? What does Boeing have in Denver or LM in Decatur? Also, many are ULA hires.

 

[Michel Van]

It seems that Sierra Space is step closer to buy ULA !

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnqilFABoRM

 

[Flyaway]

Eric Berger, in his weekly Rocket Report newsletter, cites Reuters' report on Sierra and ULA then adds the following:

ULA has been up for sale, actively, for more than a year. Blue Origin and Cerberus Capital Management had placed bids in early 2023 for the company, but none of those offers resulted in a deal. I heard about Sierra's interest last Friday, but the Reuters story came out before I could write something up. I will say, from the reporting I have been able to do, that the discussions between Sierra and ULA's owners were serious and substantial. However, at this time, my best information indicates that a sale is unlikely to happen. The parents believe ULA is worth more than Sierra is willing to pay. Sierra would also need to borrow substantially to make any transaction happen.