Postwar Hispano Aviación projects

[raravia]

Hello everybody

I´m new right here. I remember an attack aircraft proposed by the spanish company Hispano Aviation, the same company which build the HA-200 Saeta (arrow) and the HA-220 Super Saeta, maybe at the end of the 60´s wich name was Alacran (scorpion). There´s a maquette an a illustration of this totally unknown aircraft in a spanish book wich name i forget,
Does anybody know something more about that rare jet-bird, or maybe have the illustration?

 

[raravia]

Hey guys I´ve found it, a photograph of the maquette of the Hispano HA-500 Alacran, it´s from 1967

Check this link:

http://www.fag.es/aviacion/historia/HispanoAviacion/ha500alacran.htm

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Welcome to the forum, that's really interesting! I neverheard of that project.

I'm interested in whether Spain and Italy did any work on fighters prior to joining Eurofighter, I don't really know much about the Spanish aircraft industry in particular.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From the site above:

 

[Antonio]

Hi raravia,

thanks for the post!

For those interested in Spanish Aircraft Industry I recommend: Hispano Suiza 1904-1972 by Manuel Lage. Edited by LID. ISBN 84-88717-29-6. It is possible to buy it online at www.ecobook.com where I get my copy for only 24 €!. If you can read Spanish you'll find tons of interesting info including references to many unbuilt projects:

HA-230
HA-231
HA-56
HA-57
HA-60 Súper Saeta
HA-500

HA-60 and HA-500 Strike Aircraft were very interesting and ingenious designs intended to be developed and operated under restrictive budgets, but economical situation in Spain under General Franco Government was so bad that even this aircraft were unaffordable.

As far as I know, after the HA-300, no other fighter fighter design has been sketched on the drawing board. The latest combat aircraft designed in Spain was the AX which started its development in late eighties to become the Ejército del Aire F-5 replacement but it was cancelled in the early nineties. This was a tactical strike aircraft but not a fighter.

And now...we are EADS

 

[elmayerle]

I do wonder a bit about the Ha500 as it definitely resembles what little I've seen in print of Aermacchi's MB.340.

 

[Dronte]

A site with HA-500 "What if?" profiles

http://es.geocities.com/pepeillo66/

http://es.geocities.com/pepeillo66/whatif/actu/Ha500214.jpg

http://es.geocities.com/pepeillo66/whatif/actu/Ha500proto.jpg

 

[Antonio]

Pepeillo is a good artist. He has a lot of interesting stuff in his site. A lot of whatif but some unbuilt real projects, for instance the single seater Saeta.

Well my artistic skills are very rudimentary but this is how the HA-60 look like. The drawing is based on that from Mr Lage book. The configuration number three was the most ambitious, capable also to perform attacks over the sea and even for ASW warfare.

(I'll try to send a better drawing )

 

[elmayerle]

Wasn't Willy Messerschmitt involved in work with HASA in the years immediately following WW II/ And didn't he then continue to maintain a working relationship thereafter?

 

[Antonio]

Yes, you're right, he came here in March 1951. Hispano Aviación solicited him technical assistance for its Me-109 production line. In July 1951 he came again to join HASA. His design bureaux was established in Sevilla in January, the first, 1952 with Hans Hornung, Lorenz Bosch, Georg Ebner, August Hoffmann and Julius Krauss and about 70 engineers and technicians from HASA.
Their task was the design of three different aircraft:

HA-100 advanced piston engined trainer
HA-200 jet trainer
HA-300 supersonic fighter

HA-100 and HA-200 entered production series for Ejército del Aire.
HA-300 faced competition with Heinkel He-012 (Ernst Heinkel had contacts with CASA in Spain because of He111 licensed production) and won but never entered production series

In 1958 he designed a military transport aircraft, the HA-400 inspired in its P.1203 but the project not progressed from the drawing board.

Messerschmitt tried to sell the HA-200 to the new Luftwaffe in 1955 under Me-200 designation but the Fouga Magister was selected instead.
In 1966 he tried again with the Me-400 (a new design with shared the HA-200 wings and tail). It was an advanced trainer/COIN that was to be produced in part in Sevilla (Messerschmitt bought the 33% of HASA) but the Luftwaffe show no interest.


Source: Hispano Suiza 1904-1972. Manuel Lage

 

[Petrus]

Here are some drawings of a Spanish project of four-engined transport aircraft, the HA-400.

Unfortutely the drawings are of poor quality so the aircraft's dimensions can't be read but it is readable that the place would have payload of 8 - 10 metric tons as well as its engines would be RR Darts.

Hopefully other members of this forum have additional information on the HA-400 project.

Best regards,
Piotr

 

[minoslas]

HA-60? a spanish ASW or a naval attack aircraft proyect?

 

[Antonio]

HA-60? a spanish ASW or a naval attack aircraft proyect?

Yes, that's it

 

[Justo Miranda]

Polikarpov I-16 E (España)
1938 spanish trainer project derived from I-16 Type 6
Source World Aviation in Spain 1936-1939 by J. Miranda & P. Mercado

 

[Petrus]

I've waited for such an article for years.

Muchas gracias.

Piotr

 

[Petrus]

Roberto,

By the way, do you know any information on what weapons options were being conceived for the HA-300?

Piotr

 

[roberto_yeager]

Yes, it was cannon armed (2x30 mm), clasical rockets...

Years later, 1967, started this beauty project... Inta INT-156 Banderilla, a spanish AAM... (whit some assistence from Matra, look that is similar too the later Matra R550 Magic)

1Saludo

 

[frank]

Back in the '70s, when the Warbird 'movement' in the USA was so very strong & Spanish CASA 2.111s & Hispano Ha 1112s were so popular, ISTR having read of a rumored Stuka in Spain that had been fitted with a Merlin, the Lancaster power egg as used on the 2.111s even. Was it just a rumor or did Spain attempt to re-engine a Stuka thusly?

 

[royabulgaf]

Now that you mention it, I recall the Kondor Legion having sume Ju87As, but I don't recall seeing later models, and I don't recall ever seeing a Stuka in the post-war red-yellow-red roundel.

 

[roberto_yeager]

No Stukas after Legion Condor left Spain...

1Saludo

 

[Maveric]

Hi all, found this two pics from the Hispano Aviacion HA.57 and HA.210 (Source: FlugzeugClassic).
I search for technical data and 3views. Can you help?


Servus, Maveric

 

[Antonio]

Both are HA-200 series derivatives:

HA-57 project from 1960; assault fighter. Project cancelled and replaced by HA-220.

lenght: 8,97 m; span: 11,17 m; height: 3,26 m. GW: 3650 Kg; Vmax: 690 Km/h; Radius: 1,600 Km
Weapons:
4x 12,7 mm machine guns or 2x20 mm cannon
14x 68 mm SNEB / 50 mm Oerlikon rockets, 8x 80 mm Oerlikon rockets, 4x 50 Kg bombs, 2x 100 Kg bombs

HA-210 was a project from 1963; ejectable seats and Marboré IV engines. That's an improved HA-200 trainer. Most of the development incorporated into the HA-200E from 1964.


A 2 view scan from HA-57 will follow later

 

[Maveric]

Thanks pometablava, good news!

 

[Antonio]

I unsuccessfully tried to fix the image :-[

Source:

Hispano Suiza 1904-1974 by Manuel Lage

 

[Maveric]

Thanks pometablava. Are in this book more projects by Hispano Aviacion?

 

[hesham]

Hi,


if the Hispano HA.120 was formerly HA.200,has anyone a more info about HA.110,
a trainer aircraft project ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the HA-500 3-view,from L + K.

 

[Stargazer]

Former "Postwar Spanish unbuilt projects" topic split and renamed.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Hispano TL-Trainer,HA-120 (Me.120) and HA-200 R-1 aircraft,
also HA-200-F Super Saeta project.


Flugzeug Classic 10/2005
,, ,, 1/2006

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

HA-500 docs from http://www.jaon.es/ha500/ha500alacran.htm


Recently found on old hard drive, posting for posterity

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

more

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

more

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Last...

 

[Petrus]

Here are some drawings of a Spanish project of four-engined transport aircraft, the HA-400.

Unfortutely the drawings are of poor quality so the aircraft's dimensions can't be read but it is readable that the place would have payload of 8 - 10 metric tons as well as its engines would be RR Darts.

Hopefully other members of this forum have additional information on the HA-400 project.

Best regards,
Piotr

I've just learned that in the Spanish (original AFAIK) version of the book "La Hispano Suiza, 1904-1972.: Hombres, empresas, motores y aviones" by Manuel Lage there is a chapter 9.4 "Un proyecto desconocido: el cuatrimotor de carga HA-400" (here is a link to the book's ToC: http://www.amazon.es/La-Hispano-Suiza-1904-1972-Empresarial/dp/toc/8488717296).

Unfortunately the chapter has been omitted in the English version of the book titled "Hispano Suiza in Aeronautics: Men, Companies, Engines and Aircraft" (ToC: https://www.sae.org/images/books/toc_pdfs/R333.pdf).

Does anybody perhaps have the book in its Spanish version? If so please let us know.

Piotr

 

[Antonio]

Does anybody perhaps have the book in its Spanish version? If so please let us know.

Piotr

I have a Spanish version of the book.

 

[Petrus]

I have a Spanish version of the book.

Could you please share information on HA-400 included in the book?

 

[hesham]

Hi,

http://blogdepasm.blogspot.com.eg/2009/02/hispano-aviacion-ha-500-alacran.html

 

[Gruber]

Could you please share information on HA-400 included in the book?

Hi Petrus,
Got the book and that particular chapter is barely 1 page + drawings, it only says that it was a preliminary study not a full fledged project.

I can provide a full translation of the page if desired

Regards

 

[Petrus]

Could you please share information on HA-400 included in the book?

Hi Petrus,
Got the book and that particular chapter is barely 1 page + drawings, it only says that it was a preliminary study not a full fledged project.

I can provide a full translation of the page if desired

Regards

Hi Gruber,
it would be really great to know what is written of the HA-400 and to see the drawings .

Best regards,
Piotr

 

[Antonio]

https://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/proyectos-aeronáuticos-españoles-que-no-volaron.31044/

http://aerochifladuras.blogspot.com.es/2012/10/el-caso-del-ha-400.html