Post WWII USN Fleet Submarines

[Graham1973]

I spotted the photographs below in the 'Seaplane Jetfighters' thread and was wondering if anyone has any more information on the submarine design shown below. The pictures depict a 10th scale model of a 'Fleet Submarine' which was to be used to suport seaplane combat aircraft. The testing took place in the 1940s, so I'm assuming the design arose during WWII or shortly thereafter as evidenced by the 'stepped' conning tower which would suggest that surface anti-aircraft weaponry was considered.

 

[covert_shores]

If it's a real sub (looking at it on a phone screen, but are they models??) then it'll be a ww2 fleet boat with a postwar streamlined 'sail'. Pre-GUPPY I think as cannot see a snort.

'Ss-800' leads me nowhere so suspecting this is an unbuilt concept as you suspect.

Will look it up in full detail when I get a chance, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Fascinating topic though, looking forward to learning more about this.

 

[Arjen]

The distance between bow and conning tower looks a bit short for a realistic model. In some ways it resembles the USS Pomodon (SS-486) as it looked in 1948. Image from http://navsource.org/archives/08/08486.htm

 

[covert_shores]

Yes, now you mention it the bow is way too short for a ww2 fleet boat. Although it's similar to 1950s designs like Seawolf. However in this case I imagine it's because of the aircraft cradle on the aft deck.

99.9999% sure that this is an unbuilt design

 

[Arjen]

A long time ago I bought a copy of 'The Fleet Submarine in the United States Navy: A Design and Construction History' by John D Alden, Naval Institute Press, 1979. It answered all of the questions I had about US Fleet Submarines and more.

The only thing I didn't like about the book: the printers used an evil-smelling ink which, fortunately, has lost most of its power after thirty or so years.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

One thing about those USN post war fleet subs (GUPPY mods) is they could ride a wave surprising well. Not quite hanging ten but more than respectable at the local point swell.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Surfing on a swell courtesy of the ocean and the moon may be cool but what is truly impressive is surfing on a wave you make yourself. Which the Royal Navy's Valiant class submarines could do. They called it being "on the step" proving that the Brits can make great boats but don't know anything about surfing.

 

[Graham1973]

The distance between bow and conning tower looks a bit short for a realistic model. In some ways it resembles the USS Pomodon (SS-486) as it looked in 1948. Image from http://navsource.org/archives/08/08486.htm

I'd agree with the comment, that was one of the reasons I was hoping to find the actual design the model was based on.

Moving the sail that close to the bow didn't happen until after the USS Albacore was built (1950s), that model dates from the period just after the USS United States was cancelled and the Navy was scambling to find a way to stay in the Strategic Nuclear Weapons game.

But the sails aftward extension is much larger than any GUPPY submarine I've ever seen.

 

[Arjen]

I suspect the models were made to showcase/test the Convair Skate concept, not any particular new submarine design. In that case, a realistic Skate model would be more important than a realistic submarine model.

A new late 40's US submarine design would probably have looked more like the USS Tang (SS-563).
Image from http://www.oocities.org/rrowe50/tang.html

 

[shaba]

the last wartime design was longer and higher powered with a surface speed of 22 knts with 6 stern tubes plus 6 anti escort tubes in the uper casing . this served as the starting point of the sailfish class SSR.

 

[Avimimus]

the last wartime design was longer and higher powered with a surface speed of 22 knts with 6 stern tubes plus 6 anti escort tubes in the uper casing . this served as the starting point of the sailfish class SSR.

Wait, what?? 18 tubes? Anti-escort tubes - what are those, single-shot external tubes, trainable tubes?

 

[shaba]

they where short cutie torpedo tubes fixed firing three on ether side . the torpedo's would swim out of there tubes and enter a circular search pattern until it homed onto pursuing escorts.

 

[Avimimus]

Neat. Thanks!


I take it the submarine also had bow armament?

 

[covert_shores]

Any plans of that design?

 

[Moose]

Friedman's "US Submarine Designs through 1945" has about as good illustrations as you will find for the late war designs. The sub shaba is referencing looked a lot like a Tench.

 

[covert_shores]

USS Guavina refueling a P5M seaplane (found at https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-u-s-navy-tried-to-create-a-far-out-seaplane-striking-force-603fc604b792 )

schematic of the same sub as modified. From 'подводные лодки специального назначения'