Piaggio P.124 observation seaplane project (1940)

[lucamax]

Hi, in a viedeo of "Istituto Luce" regarding the situation of the Regia Aeronautica at the start of the war there is a picture about a strange airplane, maybe a seaplane, that I cannot identify. Can you help me?

Here it is the link to the video on Youtube:



Here it is the picture taken from the video, sorry for the poor quality.

 

[Stargazer]

Oops! Something weird happened here. After modifying the topic's title, the video disappeared from lucamax's post... Sorry!

Can no-one identify the aircraft in question?

 

[lark]

It should be a model of the Piaggio P.124

An observation aircraft project from 1940
on the request of Air Ministry for the Italian Navy

 

[Maveric]

Any tecnical data for this P.124 project?


Thanks Maveric

 

[lark]

It's all I have for the moment Mav...
Maybe more after next Sunday.

 

[lucamax]

Thank you for your help! Finally I have a name for that aircraft!
Here it is the video where I took the picture: at min 8.05 you can see the misterous plane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa9lhLjiL9Q

 

[Maveric]

Thanks lark :

 

[lark]

Not much more found. Just this.

It was Piaggio's entry in an abortive competition
(with designs from Direzione Costruzione DC 10 and the IMAN Ro 65&69)
for a catapult recce aircraft able to be launched from the Littorio class battleships.
(Concorso 1.7.1939-1.4.1940)

Engine : 1 IF Delta RC 11
Crew :2 pilot /observer-gunner.
1 Mg 7.7 on a flex mount for the obsever.
1 Mg 12.7 forward firing and located below the engine.

No dimensions found.

 

[Maveric]

Thanks lark,


but you force my next question: Do you have drawing and more about the Direzione Construzione DC 10 and the IMAN Ro 65&69?


Servus, Maveric

 

[lark]

Not at hand Mav.. I'll try to find them.

By the way , the source for the above info is
AeroFan issue 2/ '84 and isue 64 (1998)

 

[Maveric]

I like AeroFan, but I have only 1978 to 1983 as PDF. :'(

 

[Apophenia]

Maveric: The IMAM Ro.69 is listed in Dimensione Cielo 2: Caccia Assalto 2. That publication is available as an online download ... if you trust such sites

 

[Jemiba]

Still about the P.124: The short sequence just show the model from just one view angle. Anybody, who
can supply another view ? Would like to make a 3-view and accuracy increases with the proportionally
to the number of views.

 

[hesham]

My dear Lark,


very nice infos,but that is very strange,in the same competition,my dear Skybolt
mentioned that,the rivals are; Caproni Ca.345,IMAM Ro.65 and Piaggio P-117,and
for P-124,may be came later and participate into this contest.


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3319.msg26773.html#msg26773

 

[Maveric]

Hi Apophenia, can you tell me the page number, can´t find the info B)

 

[lark]

Hesham , I only gave the info available in AeroFan 2/84.
Nothing more , nothing less.
Probably Marco had other sources or did research by his own.
Remember that this competition was held just before
Italy's entry in WW II...

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Lark,


and may be Piaggio submitted P-117 and P-124.

 

[Nico]

My dear lark, hesham and others,
looking for information about some Piaggio projects (I have already posted on Designation topic), I found some drawings of more obscure projects competing for those requirements. The drawings are scanned from the already mentioned issues of Aero Fan and are done, probably, by Aldo Zanfi and Marco Manni on the basis of some manufacturer's files.
The aircraft involved are CAB (Caproni) Ca.332, Ca.333 and Ca.345/Ca.345bis, Direzione Costruzioni (Gen. Fiore) DC.10 and CMASA SN.10.
I'm still searching for other types but hopes are faint...
Nico

 

[hesham]

Amazing projects my dear Nico,


I am very grateful for you,I know some projects for Direzione Costruzioni,but I didn't
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]see and drawings for them;[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18945.msg183002.html#msg183002
[/font]

 

[Maveric]

Nico, do you have some technical data for these very nice projects...?

Thanks, Maveric

 

[Nico]

My dear Maveric,
as all those projects were never built available details are very scant.
The following is what I found.

1 May 1938 requirement for a shipborne reconnaissance seaplane for Littorio class battleships. Required specs were: empty weight no more than 4,800 kg, max speed at least 350 km/h at 1,000 m, cruise speed 250 km/h, range 2,500 km.

CAB Ca.332:
Two-man crew
Two unspecified radial engines
Dimensions: fuselage lenght 11.485 m; lenght overall about 16.5 m; height 5.35 m
Armament: two forward firing 12.7 mm machine guns and one each in dorsal and ventral turret

CAB Ca.333:
Two-man crew
(perhaps) Two Isota-Fraschini Delta RC.40, inverted V engines, rated at 770 HP
Dimensions: same as Ca.332
Armament: same as Ca.332.

Piaggio P.109:
Two Piaggio P.VII C.16 rated at 470 HP

Piaggio P.113:
Perhaps three-seat crew
One Piaggio P.XI RC.15

2 January 1939 requirement
CAB Ca.345:
Two-man crew
Two Piaggio P.VII C.16 rated at 460-470 HP at 1,600 m
Fuel tank 800 litres
Dimensions: span 15.900 m; lenght overall 12.300 m; height 4.000 m; wing area 34.5 sq m
Max speed 345 km/h at 2,200 m; range 3,000 km at 214 km/h cruise speed
Armament: perhaps one-two forward firing 12,7 mm machine-gun and one 7.7 mm in dorsal position

CAB Ca.345bis:
Two-man crew
Two Isotta-Fraschini Gamma RC.35 rated at 520 HP at 4,000 m
Dimensions: same as Ca.345
Max speed 415 km/h at 4,100 m; range 2,375 km at 216 km/h cruise speed.
Armament: same as Ca.345.

Piaggio P.117:
Three-man crew
Two Piaggio P.XI RC.40
Approx span 13.9 m; approx overall lenght 13.5 m
Armament: at least one ventral rear-firing 7.7 machine gun

IMAM Ro.65:
Perhaps twin-boom design
Two Isotta-Fraschini Gamma RC.35

1939 requirement for a lighter seaplane, intended for light cruisers of Condottieri class

CMASA SN.16:
Designed by Eng. Manlio Stiavelli and his staff.

Piaggio P.120:
Two-man crew
One Piaggio P.XVI RC.35 rated at 650 HP
Dimensions: span 12.000 m; overall lenght 10.150 m; fuselage lenght 8,000 m
Armament: one 12.7 Breda machine gun in nose and one 7.7-mm Lewis in dorsal position.

1 July 1939 and 1 april 1940 contests:
Direzione Costruzioni (gen. Fiore - I think his first name was Amedeo) DC.10:
Two-man crew
Two Isotta-Fraschini engines
Dimensions: lenght overall 11.500 m; height 3.800 m
Armament: at least one forward-firing 12.7 mm and one in dorsal position.

IMAM Ro.65:
Perhaps tha same version already offered for the previous contest.

IMAM Ro.69:
I failed to find any indication on the books of the series "Dimensione Cielo".

Piaggio P.124:
Two man crew
Isotta-Fraschini Gamma RC.11/5
Armament: one forward-firing 12.7 mm and one dorsal 7.7 mm Breda machine-gun

 

[hesham]

Excellent work my dear Nico,


and can I ask you,in you first reply and in the drawings you called CMASA Project SN.10,and
in description you called it SN.16,what is the right ?.

 

[Nico]

I apologise for my typo: the CMASA design is SN.16; the number 10 is the one of the Direzione Costruzioni project (DC.10).
Nico

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Nico,and thanks you.

 

[Maveric]

Yes, because Number 10 was the M.F.10.

 

[zeroc]

This is my version (still WIP) of the Fiore DC.10.
Designed by Gen. Amedeo Fiore in november, 1939, was a seaplane with two Isotta Fraschini Beta of 280 HP (alternate: Hirt 508C, 285HP), lenght; 11,5 mt.; height: 3,80 m. Crew of two, a pilot and a observer/gunner, seating side by side. The gunner seat can shift rearward to reach the battle station just aft the cockpit. The gun was raised thru the panel on the fuselage.
The nose was full glazed. Due to lack of info, the image is speculative and may contain errors.Cheers,
Marco.

 

[hesham]

My dear Zeroc,

you meant that one;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/direzione-costruzioni-aircraft-and-projects.18945/#post-314755

 

[zeroc]

My dear Zeroc,

you meant that one;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/direzione-costruzioni-aircraft-and-projects.18945/#post-314755

Yes.