Peruvian Navy Never-Were Designs

[Tzoli]

For request here are my knowledge on the Peruvian Navy Never-Were warship designs or export designs offered for them.

Coastal Battleship:
Armstrong Design 783P of 1914: 7.350tons, 2x2 203mm, 6x1 152mm, 2x1 457mm Torpedoes, 178mm Belt

Battleships:
Vickers Design 512 of 1911: 11.500tons, 2x2 356mm, 12x1 120mm, 4x1 76mm, 4x1 40mm AA, 4x1 533mm Torpedoes, 229mm Belt
Vickers Design 513 of 1911: 11.500tons, 2x3 356mm, 14x1 152mm, 2x1 76mm, 2x1 40mm AA, 2x1 533mm Torpedoes, 178mm Belt

Also there would be two other ships of the R1 / Islay class Submarines of the 1920's but they were cancelled.

This is all my knowledge on the proposals for Peru I know of.

 

[Akaloso Dudu]

Some other possible British' projects for Peru:

Preliminary Designs for 'Corenel Bolognesi' Class (1906):

Design Vickers 126 - 1,900 tons, 290ft x 37ft x 11 1/2ft. Two 6in QF and four 14pdr rated at 19 knots.

Design Vickers 130 - Three 4,7in.

Design Vickers 167 - 3,250 tons, 330ft x 43 1/2ft x 16ft. Two 7,5in QF, ten 6pdr QF and two 18in tubes. 20 knots on 7,000 IHP.

Design Vickers 170 / Armstrong 331 - 3,200 tons, 370ft x 40ft x 14ft. Two 6in QF, eight 14pdr and two 18in tubes. 24 knots on 14,000 IHP.

Protected Cruiser Design (1908):

Design Vickers 371 - 4,500 tons, 400ft x 47ft x 16 1/2ft. Two 7,5in, ten 4in and two TTs. 24 knots on 17,000 IHP.

Source: Friedman, 'British cruisers of the Victorian Era'

 

[Tzoli]

Ahh yes as I don't have that book ony it's Battleship contemporary (Which is good if you like Pre WW1 battleships and evolution history) but that book minially states export ships or different pre variants of built ones. I will intend to get that cruiser book as it seems to have more data on export designs and possibly preliminary versions.

 

[awhalen61]

Fairfield Project, 1967.

Possibly the last fully gun armed DD project. Plan was 4x1 120mm Bofors (TAK 120?) and 3x1 57mm/60 Bofors on a Daring hull.

Plan eventually fell through and Peru bought 2 Daring class instead.

 

[Akaloso Dudu]

Yes Mr. Tzoli,

This book has one exclusive chapter for Vickers exported designs. But as you obseved before, much of these designs were proposed for more than one country and Friedman is not much clear about it in his texts.

 

[Petrus]

Fairfield Project, 1967.

Possibly the last fully gun armed DD project. Plan was 4x1 120mm Bofors (TAK 120?) and 3x1 57mm/60 Bofors on a Daring hull.

Indeed in the late 1960s it might have seemed that the TAK 120 (12 cm L/46) was to be used in the Peruvian design.
However the shape of the main battery turrets in the drawing from the Warship 2013 (quite schematic, obviously) does not resemble that of the TAK 120. It is much more similar to the single automatic L/50 Bofors gun that was developed in the late 1950s. It had water-cooled barrel, used probably the same ammunition that had been used in the twin gun for the Halland-class destroyers and had rate of fire of 70 rpm. Unlike the TAK 120 it's never gone past the drawing board (afaik).

Source of drawings: "Tidskrift i Sjöväsendet" issue 4 of 1971.

Piotr

 

[Hood]

I was reading Santiago Rvias's article on Latin American interest in Harrier in this month's issue of Aeroplane Monthly and he mentions that in 1976 Peru looked at possibly buying HMS Bulwark and that Yarrow offered them an 18,000-ton carrier for $42 million which could be completed in 1984 or 1986.

Does anyone have any more details?
This is the first time I've come across mention of such a design. Given the displacement I assume it would be based on the Invincible-class design (16,000 tons light, 22,000 tons full load)?

 

[Tzoli]

That year is very close to the Vickers offer to Australia for a modified Invincible maybe they are connected?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/australian-invincible.23148/

 

[Grey Havoc]

Seems possible or even likely.

 

[COLDOWN]

Destroyers:
- Vickers year 1920s: "295ft × 29.5ft × 8.75 ft; 1200 tons (...) with four (...) 4in (...) guns".
- Vickers year 1928: "British Foreign Office papers show that Vickers came close to selling two ships to Peru in 1928. Apparently the US government or its naval adviser to the Peruvian Navy stopped the deal just short of signature about July 1928. As described in the abortive contract, the ships would have been 300ft bp × 29ft 6in × 18ft 5in depth × 8ft 8in (1285 tons), with a speed of thirty-six knots on trials and a radius of action of 3500nm at fourteen knots. Armament would have been four 4.7in/45 (120 rounds per gun, much less than in British practice), one 3in/50 anti-aircraft gun (120 rounds), two pompoms (1000 rounds each), and two triple 21 in tubes. In 1933, Peru bought two former Russian destroyers from Estonia."
Sauce: British Destroyers. From Earliest Days to the SWW - Friedman N. 2009.
Edit: i can´t quote pages, sorry.

 

[Odysseus1980]

I was reading Santiago Rvias's article on Latin American interest in Harrier in this month's issue of Aeroplane Monthly and he mentions that in 1976 Peru looked at possibly buying HMS Bulwark and that Yarrow offered them an 18,000-ton carrier for $42 million which could be completed in 1984 or 1986.

Does anyone have any more details?
This is the first time I've come across mention of such a design. Given the displacement I assume it would be based on the Invincible-class design (16,000 tons light, 22,000 tons full load)?

These are from Vickers/VSEL, perhaps Yarrow offered something similar.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...ft-carrier-and-1983-light-fleet-carrier.3727/

 

[Dilandu]

I'm trying to find out, did Peru expressed any interest in obtaining Soviet warships/submarines in 1970s. A lot of Soviet equipment was brought at this time for Peruvian Army and Air Force (creating near-absolute superiority over Chile). Seems logical that some interest might be expressed in naval units also.

 

[COLDOWN]

Vickers Design 513 of 1911: 11.500tons, 2x3 356mm, 14x1 152mm, 2x1 76mm, 2x1 40mm AA, 2x1 533mm Torpedoes, 178mm Belt

Hello, long time.

I've been looking at the Vickers 513.

1. I point out a typo: The secondary battery indicated by Friedman is 102mm (4-in).
2. Do you think the 76mm (3-in) guns were anti-aircraft or landing type?
3. I found this 14"/52 triple turret design. Supposedly from british origin and from 1911. I guess my idea of 3 double turrets was wrong and that 2 triple turrets is the viable option to imagine this battleship.

3.bis.

Regards

 

[Tzoli]

On 11.500tons and 118m length two triple turrets are more likely.

Do you have a side view of the turret?
The barrel length indicates the Vickers Mk B gun which should be from 1913 and was sold to Russia and used as a basis for the 356mm/52 Pattern 1913 guns armed the Borodino class Battlecruisers

 

[COLDOWN]

On 11.500tons and 118m length two triple turrets are more likely.

Do you have a side view of the turret?
The barrel length indicates the Vickers Mk B gun which should be from 1913 and was sold to Russia and used as a basis for the 356mm/52 Pattern 1913 guns armed the Borodino class Battlecruisers

Sadly not, just the preview of the link (https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-366744)

 

[Dilandu]

Do you think the 76mm (3-in) guns were anti-aircraft or landing type?

Most likely saluting & short-range torpedo boat defense (there were apparently some doubts in 1910s that 6-inch secondaries would be good in engaging small coastal torpedo boats, especially at night).