Orenda Iroquois Technician Manual

[jamesmk]

I thought I would scan a few pages from an Orenda employees manual in regards to the Iroquois. This fellow worked in the Controls Development Laboratory in conjunction with the Iroquois at Orenda. As you probably know, this was the final engine for the Avro Arrow.
I know it's very technical, I don't understand it, but I like to look back and try to appreciate just how intelligent these people were. All of it was to be destroyed, to see any of it is very rare, not to mention I like to stick it to Diefenbaker.

Note the company memorandum shows us some things never change, lol

 

[Apophenia]

Many thanks for that James.

As a former Orenda employee, might your contact have ever heard of an Orenda PS-25C turbofan engine. I'm working on the assumption that Orenda did not assign 'PS' numbers to its later, licensed-built engines and that the PS-25C was an original design.

The PS-25C was associated with the unbuilt 1961 Canadair CL-97 project (a military version of the similarly-unbuilt CL-95 executive aircraft). I've been in touch with the Orenda archives person at Magellan Aerospace but he'd never heard of the PS-25C.

 

[jamesmk]

Sorry Apophenia, I can't help you out with that. I don't know him.

I will see if I can find anything.

When it comes to engines, I think its common place for the vendor to speculate in coordination with the aircraft design. Then assign it identification in case things become serious. I've run across a few engine idents that have never appeared to actually exist, but I'm sure they have a prototype that's close.

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks for that. Agreed on engine-makers speculation. The PS-25C is an odd one. The CL-95 was to have twin PT6As so I presume that the PS-25C was a rather small turbofan ... speaking of speculation

 

[jamesmk]

x

x

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

No.

Please read the PDF, this is nothing related to the Orenda engine.

 

[Johnbr]

Iroquois Engine for the Avro Arrow in the Propulsion Systems Laboratory
A researcher examines the Orenda Iroquois PS.13 turbojet in a Propulsion Systems Laboratory test chamber at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory. The Iroquois was being developed to power the CF-105 Arrow fighter designed by the Avro Canada Company. Avro began design work on the Arrow jet fighter in 1952. The company’s Orenda branch suggested building a titanium-based PS.13 Iroquois engine after development problems arose with the British engines that Avro had originally intended to use. The 10-stage, 20,000-pound-thrust Iroquois would prove to be more powerful than any contemporary US or British turbojet. It was also significantly lighter and more fuel efficient. An Iroquois was sent to Cleveland in April 1957 so that Lewis researchers could study the engine’s basic performance for the air force in the Propulsion Systems Laboratory. The tests were run over a wide range of speeds and altitudes with variations in exhaust-nozzle area. Initial studies determined the Iroquois’s windmilling and ignition characteristics at high altitude. After operating for 64 minutes, the engine was reignited at altitudes up to the 63,000-foot limit of the facility. Various modifications were attempted to reduce the occurrence of stall but did not totally eradicate the problem. The Arrow jet fighter made its initial flight in March 1958 powered by a substitute engine. In February 1959, however, both the engine and the aircraft programs were cancelled. The world’s superpowers had quickly transitioned from bombers to ballistic missiles which rendered the Avro Arrow prematurely obsolete.

 

[Johnbr]

John McAulay (to the right) and a technician install the Orenda Iroquois PS.13 engine in a PSL test chamber. The engine was intended to power Canada’s Avro Arrow fighter jet. (6/7/1957)
Altitude Performance of the Afterburner on the Iroquois Turbojet Engine (1958

 

[canvoodoo]

I am seeking a reasonably high resolution photograph of an Iroquois engine being installed into Arrow 206. A higher resolution version of this image:


(or similar - I know of several different images that were taken at the same time) would be ideal.

The image is intended to be used in a presentation on the history of the B-47 (including the Orenda Iroquois testbed aircraft), to be given to the Toronto chapter of the Canadian Aviation Historical Society.

 

[Photon440]

I don't know if these are acceptable, I copied them from the book "Iroquois Rollout", printed in 2002.









There were also quite a few pictures of the B-47 in that publication.

 

[TsrJoe]

Really nice images, I'd love to see any photographs of the Boeing B-47B/Canadair CL.52 flying testbed too

 

[Photon440]

Really nice images, I'd love to see any photographs of the Boeing B-47B/Canadair CL.52 flying testbed too

Will these do for now? This aircraft was loaned from the US government in 1956, it was the only B-47 flown by a foreign power, all the rest were either USAF or US Navy. Also the only seven engined version of its type. Modified by Canadair with the addition of the rear pod, the aircraft was difficult to fly due to the asymmetrical thrust.


And a promo ad from back in the day:

The original B-47 engines produced 7,200 pounds of thrust each, totaling 43,000. The Orenda engine by itself put out 20,000 pounds dry, and over 25,000 pounds with afterburner. After the project had ended, the aircraft was returned to the US. Apparently, the weight of the modifications and the extra thrust had warped the fuselage; the aircraft was never used again and was scrapped.

 

[canvoodoo]

Also regarding the Orenda Iroquois: I recently acquired a copy of the flight test report for the Iroquois engine installed in the Canadair CL-52 (aka B-47) engine test bed. A copy is attached.

Frustratingly, this report only covers from November 1957 to mid February 1958.

Is anyone aware of where I might be able to find more material like this? I just went through the NRC archive, and while they have plenty of material on the Arrow, they don't seem to have a lot of material on the Iroquois. I would love to have more information on the flight tests of the Iroquois with the CL-52/B-47.

 

[P-STICKNEY]

Will these do for now? This aircraft was loaned from the US government in 1956, it was the only B-47 flown by a foreign power, all the rest were either USAF or US Navy. Also the only seven engined version of its type. Modified by Canadair with the addition of the rear pod, the aircraft was difficult to fly due to the asymmetrical thrust.
View attachment 711098
View attachment 711099View attachment 711100View attachment 711101View attachment 711102View attachment 711103
And a promo ad from back in the day:
View attachment 711104
The original B-47 engines produced 7,200 pounds of thrust each, totaling 43,000. The Orenda engine by itself put out 20,000 pounds dry, and over 25,000 pounds with afterburner. After the project had ended, the aircraft was returned to the US. Apparently, the weight of the modifications and the extra thrust had warped the fuselage; the aircraft was never used again and was scrapped.

It wasn't so much the Flight Test Iroquois' thrust or weight, but the damage done when it violently disassembled itself after 31 hours. (Not a lot of in-flight experience)

 

[Photon440]

It wasn't so much the Flight Test Iroquois' thrust or weight, but the damage done when it violently disassembled itself after 31 hours. (Not a lot of in-flight experience)

Interesting, where is a link to this test damage? The actual engine in the B-47 (CL-52) was production # X-104 which still exists; it is the engine currently at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in Ontario. The Boeing was returned to the United States but only after the Canadian program was cancelled; testing was in progress right until the end.