Optimized America Class - Light Carrier Configuration with EMALSs and AAG

[Ironmiked]

Could a variant of the America Class be built, optimized as a Carrier (CVL or CVS [perhaps with angled deck + EMALSs and AAG]), to compliment, but not replace, existing Nimitz and Ford Class ships? Can it be modified to fill the role of the Essex Class CV/CVS of the 60's & early 70's? Can it be constructed in a shipyard not currently building America Class ships? Everyone recognized the US Navy needs to grow. There is a need to expand the carrier fleet, along with every other type of platform. Can a ship like this be designed and built in an expeditious manner? We have an existing hull platform. If so, what would its optimized air wing looking like for both independent operations and as a part of larger carrier strike group? I welcome anyone's thoughts. Thanks!

 

[helmutkohl]

wouldnt these LHDs be a lot slower than the regular carriers they are supposed to keep up with?

 

[Scott Kenny]

So, let's talk air wing. You need some AEW, ASW, CAP, and COD.

• With EMALS and AAG on an angled deck, you can probably fly E-2Ds off an America-class for AEW. Otherwise, you're looking at needing an AEW Osprey or something like the EH101 Merlin used by the UKRN. Probably can be built, but that will be interesting packaging. At any rate, you need 3 AEW birds in order to keep one up in the air all the time. (Side note, AEW would be a really good use for a drone! Even as drones you'll still need 2-3, though. If you use helicopters I'd want more like 5, due to how little time any given helicopter can fly.)
• ASW is going to be a bunch of H60s. Probably 6-8 total, including the two for Plane Guard to recover downed pilots as fast as possible. (4-6x MH-60R, 2x MH-60S)
• CAP requires about 8 fighters to keep 2 in the air all the time, according to the UKRN's experience on their baby carriers.
• COD is 2x CMV-22 "fat cheeks" Ospreys.
• Note that this doesn't include any tankers. IF you want tankers, you need at least 2-3 to keep one in the air 24/7.

And that's just for the minimum self protection and operational capabilities. 3x AEW (5x if helicopters), 6-8x H-60s, 8x F-35s, 2x CMV-22, (optional: 2-3x more CMV-22 as tankers). Except for the AEW, you do NOT need an angled flight deck for this to work, and the Merlin AEW is an existing, off the shelf buy (but not in the USN inventory right now). That's 19-26 aircraft already, and that's already getting close to the carrying limit of the ship without enlarging the flight deck.

Now, we can talk about what extra capabilities we need to add to the carrier, which depends on what job we want them to do.

The usual job for escort carriers like this is ASW protection for convoys.

Because the USN was stupid and retired the S-3 Vikings for long range patrol, we're stuck with using VTOLs for ASW. Either MH-60Rs or an SV-22, which was never funded and would need to be developed (Yes, bringing the S-3s back is an option but is pretty unlikely; would also require building the class as full angled decks). Yes, there are P-8s and Global Hawks out there, but I really want a long range ASW patrol plane on the carrier. The catch with long range ASW planes is that you really need a lot of them in the air wing, because you're keeping at least 2x airborne 24/7 and maybe as many as 4x. And that means you will need 6-8x long range ASW patrol planes in the air wing. Long range ASW would be a good job for a drone, but you're still talking about needing 6-8 airframes.​

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Even if we just used more H-60s, we're looking at about 6x additional MH-60R, total of 10-12x.​

For a strike platform, you will want another 8-10x F-35s, and that will be limited because it doesn't have EA-18G Growlers for EW support. Adding Growlers will only be possible with an angled deck, and you would want 2-4x in the air wing.

 

[Archibald]

This thread should go here https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forums/theoretical-fake-and-generic-projects.44/

 

[BlackBat242]

wouldnt these LHDs be a lot slower than the regular carriers they are supposed to keep up with?

USN LHD/LHA max speed is ~24 knots (the LHA-1 class was 24, LHD-1 class is "20+", and LHA-6 class is "over 22").

USN CVNs have a top speed of "over 30 knots" (the preceding oil-fired CVAs made 33 knots, so...).

 

[Scott Kenny]

USN LHD/LHA max speed is ~24 knots (the LHA-1 class was 24, LHD-1 class is "20+", and LHA-6 class is "over 22").

USN CVNs have a top speed of "over 30 knots" (the preceding oil-fired CVAs made 33 knots, so...).

However, the CVNs with steam catapults need so much steam to run the cats that the ships slow down to about 24knots, or so I have heard.

 

[GTX]

Everyone recognized the US Navy needs to grow.

Really??

 

[TomS]

Can it be constructed in a shipyard not currently building America Class ships?

I very much doubt it. There isn't a lot of surplus yard capacity in the US, especially for large ships. Maybe NASSCO?

 

[BlackBat242]

However, the CVNs with steam catapults need so much steam to run the cats that the ships slow down to about 24knots, or so I have heard.

I do question that, as the old CV-61 Ranger could maintain ~28-30 knots while using 2 catapults to launch aircraft... and her no-catapult max was 33 knots with her mid-1950s oil-fired boilers & turbines.

It is my understanding that the CVNs, while their turbines are only good for the power to hit 33 knots or so, can generate significantly more steam from her 2 reactors - so their speed loss should be less, even when using all 4 catapults.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I do question that, as the old CV-61 Ranger could maintain ~28-30 knots while using 2 catapults to launch aircraft... and her no-catapult max was 33 knots with her mid-1950s oil-fired boilers & turbines.

CVNs have 4 cats, though. Running all 4 cats is going to drop them from "30+" to ~29 with 2 cats to ~25 with 4 cats.

It is my understanding that the CVNs, while their turbines are only good for the power to hit 33 knots or so, can generate significantly more steam from her 2 reactors - so their speed loss should be less, even when using all 4 catapults.

That I'd believe. Carriers should have absolutely absurd steam generation capacity over and above what the turbines need.

 

[BlackBat242]

CVNs have 4 cats, though. Running all 4 cats is going to drop them from "30+" to ~29 with 2 cats to ~25 with 4 cats.


That I'd believe. Carriers should have absolutely absurd steam generation capacity over and above what the turbines need.

Let me make myself clear... the Forrestal class CVs (of which Ranger was one) and the Kitty Hawk class, ALSO had FOUR catapults - it is just that we rarely used more than two at a time (we usually had aircraft covering both bow cats), and just used the waist ones - except during high-intensity ops, when we cleared off the port bow cat for use - and when getting rid of all aircraft back to their bases when pulling back into San Diego at the end of a deployment, when we used all 4.

Also, Ranger had an issue... when we made over 30 knots the ship began to vibrate noticeably anywhere aboard - it was our "we must be going somewhere fast" alarm. We were told it was due to an issue with the shaft bearings or the props, and that it would be fixed when she got her SLEP (which was cancelled in 1990 due to the "end of the Cold War" and her eventual decommissioning in 1993).

As a result we rarely tried to make more than 28-30 knots during flight ops.