Of YF-12, Valkyrie, and Boeing SST

A

Archibald

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
6 June 2006
Messages
12,683
Reaction score
15,592
All in the title. I used @archipeppe splendid artwork related to these three flying wonders of the 60's. And put them side by side
- This could never been done OTL because a) Boeing SST was only a model (like Kamelot) trapped in a Seattle hangar
- The 3*YF-12s and 2*Valkyries all hanged out at Edwards / Dryden between 1963 (YF-12) and 1969 (last XB-70 flight) but (damn it) they were never photographed side by side, not even on the ground and even less in flight. There is a picture of a X-15 along a Valkyrie, but the YF-12s are nowhere to be seen. Shame !
- I wanted to scheck these beasts respective sizes and shapes - all three were awesome flying machines pushing the state-of-the-art: Mach 2.7, Mach 3.1 and Mach 3.35, respectively. Titanium, steel, more titanium !

What a time to be at Edwards AFB !

So, behold: the three side by side: at the same size, and not respecting their sizes.

Enjoy !

P.S Maybe I should add a X-15 ? but it would be tiny... very tiny. And Dynasoar would be even smaller !
 

Attachments

  • Mach 3 - Copie.png
    Mach 3 - Copie.png
    97.8 KB · Views: 295
  • Mach 3.png
    Mach 3.png
    134 KB · Views: 270
Last edited:
If you think the Valkyrie was a monster, consider the following fact: at 185 feet long, it was merely two-third the length of the 2707-300... 298 feet; longer than an An-225. And thrice the speed !

A 298 feet long titanium fuselage. Boeing got in touch with Lockheed about titanium manufacturing - and where to buy it (hint: the freakkin' Soviet Union had the purest in the world).
While Lockheed procured its Soviet titanium via the CIA and a host of offshore companies, Boeing directly went to the source and met a soviet delegation in a Paris restaurant. They were building a civilian aircraft, after all.

Concorde (and its Tu-144 "clone") were the size of a Valkyrie at 200 feet long; but the SST would have dwarfed both. That's what it takes to line up 250 passengers on a single deck and a narrow fuselage. No other solution !

The Valkyrie at 246 MTOW tons remains one of the heaviest supersonic aircraft ever - only the Tu-160 bet it at a whopping 277 mt. But the Valk' flew at Mach 3.1 ! Concorde, Tu-144 and the Rockwell B-1 mass 185 tonnes, average.
The SST would have been 700 000 pounds: 317 tonnes ! Also close from Mach 3 (2.7 exactly).

The YF-12 was merely 56 tonnes MTOW - a hummingbird by comparison. Next heaviest fighter is the Tu-128.

Between them, the Tu-22M Backfire is the heaviest supersonic twin jet ever at 126 tonnes MTOW. It takes engines as powerful as the Tu-160 to get it off the ground (and they are probably related, both being Kuznetsov products).

You guess, to push more than 300 tonnes near Mach 3 with only four engines rather than the Valkyrie six, the SST engine produced colossal amounts of thrust.
The GE4 was a scaled-up, improved J93, already not a J85 in thrust by any mean - 13 metric tonnes, and there were six of them.

According to that link, the stock GE4 was 70 000 pounds thrust with the AB.

At 50 000 pounds dry, it was nearly as powerful as a Tu-160 engine... 55 000 pounds with the AB.

And they were planning 75 000 pounds thrust variants either as "leaky turbojet" or without any afterburner. And NASA at some point discussed hydrogen variant of that thing, thus with 2.5 more energy in the fuel.

The GE4 could have lifted a cathedral off the ground.
 
Archibald said:
- The 3*YF-12s and 2*Valkyries all hanged out at Edwards / Dryden between 1963 (YF-12) and 1969 (last XB-70 flight) but (damn it) they were never photographed side by side, not even on the ground and even less in flight. There is a picture of a X-15 along a Valkyrie, but the YF-12s are nowhere to be seen. Shame !
Click to expand...

Carswell AFB '66 & Edwards open houses ?

xb-70-carswell[1].jpg 126b34c754bbdcef0e176f4553d4fe8847c6d1c6[1].jpg 5edhbg7h7gv41[1].jpg
 
Last edited:
Dew said:
Archibald said:
- The 3*YF-12s and 2*Valkyries all hanged out at Edwards / Dryden between 1963 (YF-12) and 1969 (last XB-70 flight) but (damn it) they were never photographed side by side, not even on the ground and even less in flight. There is a picture of a X-15 along a Valkyrie, but the YF-12s are nowhere to be seen. Shame !
Click to expand...

Carswell AFB '66 & Edwards open houses ?

View attachment 664282View attachment 664286View attachment 664287
Click to expand...
Way coooool!
 
I'm planning a similar "poster" called "Strategic reconnaissance galore". The years 1956 to 1971 saw strategic reconnaissance going from U-2 to KH-9: from AQUATONE to HEXAGON, it almost rhymes.
Thanks to Archipeppe stupendous artwork (again) it is now possible to get such different systems as U-2, CORONA, TAGBOARD and OXCART side by side: manned spyplane, spysat, drone and a few other guests.
 
Dew said:
Archibald said:
- The 3*YF-12s and 2*Valkyries all hanged out at Edwards / Dryden between 1963 (YF-12) and 1969 (last XB-70 flight) but (damn it) they were never photographed side by side, not even on the ground and even less in flight. There is a picture of a X-15 along a Valkyrie, but the YF-12s are nowhere to be seen. Shame !
Click to expand...

Carswell AFB '66 & Edwards open houses ?

View attachment 664282View attachment 664286View attachment 664287
Click to expand...
That 'A-37" in the first photo sure looks a lot like an A-26 'Counter-invader', doesn't it. And helicopters get no respect, the sole helicopter, the Hiller H-23, goes un-identified.
 
Dew said:
Archibald said:
- The 3*YF-12s and 2*Valkyries all hanged out at Edwards / Dryden between 1963 (YF-12) and 1969 (last XB-70 flight) but (damn it) they were never photographed side by side, not even on the ground and even less in flight. There is a picture of a X-15 along a Valkyrie, but the YF-12s are nowhere to be seen. Shame !
Click to expand...

Carswell AFB '66 & Edwards open houses ?

View attachment 664282View attachment 664286View attachment 664287
Click to expand...
Have a close friend who was at the Carswell open house when he was about 12 years old. Says the XB-70 was amazing and LOUD! Had no idea at that time it was the only time it was displayed outside Edwards other than the delivery to the USAF Museum. Aaahhh, to go back in time with a camera....

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
At lower left in the Carswell photo, that looks like a YF-12 rather than an SR-71.
 
Done ! Quite a ride. Scale and quality are unequal, for sure. Hard to gather all the birds from the Internet. But it doesn't look too bad, at least at medium size. Once again, thanks to Archipeppe who made this possible thanks to its artwork skills.

So - it all started at high altitude, subsonic. Bell X-16 should have been the one, with RB-57 as backup but Lockheed and the CIA decided otherwise. RB-57 later got its revenge, with the B and D variants.

And then was the cambrian explosion: drones, satellites, and space systems. Manned or not. Note that FISH, KINGFISH and ISINGLASS are loosely related through Convair / G.D.

1681307599338.png
 
At least two-third of these are yours, so - well done too. I'm unable to draw a circle without making it a potato, so I need something to compensate that lifelong frustration...
 
Whisperstream said:
At lower left in the Carswell photo, that looks like a YF-12 rather than an SR-71.
Click to expand...
Most certainly (that was the point of the post). The first picture's captioning is not mine; I had just remembered seeing the pictures previously and re-found them and shared.
 
Last edited:
Mark Nankivil said:
Have a close friend who was at the Carswell open house when he was about 12 years old. Says the XB-70 was amazing and LOUD! Had no idea at that time it was the only time it was displayed outside Edwards other than the delivery to the USAF Museum. Aaahhh, to go back in time with a camera....
Click to expand...
Oh boy - absolutely!
 
Dew said:
Archibald said:
- The 3*YF-12s and 2*Valkyries all hanged out at Edwards / Dryden between 1963 (YF-12) and 1969 (last XB-70 flight) but (damn it) they were never photographed side by side, not even on the ground and even less in flight. There is a picture of a X-15 along a Valkyrie, but the YF-12s are nowhere to be seen. Shame !
Click to expand...

Carswell AFB '66 & Edwards open houses ?

View attachment 664282View attachment 664286View attachment 664287
Click to expand...
Love that photo
 
jstar said:
And helicopters get no respect, the sole helicopter, the Hiller H-23, goes un-identified.
Click to expand...
As does the Thor(-Able?) casually blocking the view of the X-15 !
And apparently the 'A-37' is a B-26K, so you were quite correct!
 
Last edited:
archipeppe said:
In future, maybe I could do the whole picture with my own drawings at the very same scale....
Click to expand...

That would be freakkin' awesome. Be my guest if you need anything that can help you. Wish I could have something better for the Ryan AQM-91 COMPASS ARROW, for sure.

Since it was build in parallel with the D-21B for the exact same "Lop Nor mission and back", same time, and also pre-stealth ! Yet (I checked) the two programs were wholly independant. :eek::eek:
And both eye-watering expensive.
-TAGBOARD (D-21B) sprung out of the CIA A-12 OXCART.
-COMPASS ARROW was an extension of the Air Force / SAC Ryan Firebees doing wonders over Vietnam.

And just as they were getting operational, Nixon and Kissinger went to China so Lop Nor spying had to stop, and both stealth drones were canned.
End results:
-TAGBOARD flew four times over China, failed four times, and as bonus: one drone went to the Soviets via Siberia (Tupolev Voron appreciated the gift) , and another to the Chinese themselves for a museum exhibit. The rest went straight to Davis Monthan boneyard (17 of them) then to NASA, then to museums.
-COMPASS ARROW flew zero times over China and only a few years later a bulldozer was run over the stealth drones. At least the J97s (miniature F404s, kind of) went to NASA too.
 
Whisperstream said:
At lower left in the Carswell photo, that looks like a YF-12 rather than an SR-71.
Click to expand...
Looking around at other sources, you get a mix of memories saying YF-12 and SR-71. Did find a photo that sure looks like a YF-12:

Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - Xb-70 visits Ft. Worth March 1966 plus Airshow pics

www.warbirdinformationexchange.org www.warbirdinformationexchange.org

The serial matches up with the YF-12 range. Also, both XB-70s were there though the other did a flyover and did not land. Take a look at:

theaviationgeekclub.com

The Only Public Air Show in XB-70 Valkyrie History Featured some of the Coolest Aircraft Ever Built - The Aviation Geek Club

The Only Public Air Show in XB-70 Valkyrie History Featured some of the Coolest Aircraft Ever Built
theaviationgeekclub.com theaviationgeekclub.com

Man, to have been there..... Mark
 
Orionblamblam said:
Having Suntan and Firebee on the same illustration at the same scale would be uncomfortable. Either Suntan would be huge, or Firebee would be a dot. Scale can be a pain sometimes.
Click to expand...
Scott you're right.
Maybe could worth doing two different artworks: one all manned recce aircrafts and the other one all unmanned. It is possible to use always the same scale (1/100) but objects comparable among them and with appropriate sheet size.
What do you think?
 
archipeppe said:
Orionblamblam said:
Having Suntan and Firebee on the same illustration at the same scale would be uncomfortable. Either Suntan would be huge, or Firebee would be a dot. Scale can be a pain sometimes.
Click to expand...
Scott you're right.
Maybe could worth doing two different artworks: one all manned recce aircrafts and the other one all unmanned. It is possible to use always the same scale (1/100) but objects comparable among them and with appropriate sheet size.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Problem of scale remains if you split manned/unmanned. Unmanned you get Firebee and, potentially, the Boeing Condor with a span of 200 feet. Heck, you could go nuts and include palm-sized battlefield recon drones and high altitude blimps and giant radar satellites, and make a giant mess of things.

Other than including *two* scales on an illustration, or having two illustrations, or chopping out either the giants or the midgets, I don't have a good answer.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqmjKMgE2nQ
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom