Another rocket by the Kriegsmarine, this time to be fired from underwater submarines against aircraft. Please see the link to Scott Lowther`s blog:
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=5389
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=5389
"Nussknacker" MF-5 AA missile
- Thread starter Wurger
- Start date
Grzesio
ACCESS: Secret
By the way - maybe someone could help me.
There was a couple of pictures linked on a discussion forum some time ago - maybe even Secret Projects, showing an unidentified guidance section of a relatively small missile, preserved in an American collection, I think. These pictures showed a slim cylindrical body in vertical position, with wires and relays visible inside.
This section "looked German" according to some comments - sadly I'm unable to trace these pictures now.
Nussknacker recalled me them, as the size seems to be just about right - just a loose impression.
Does anybody knows this "German" exhibit- or has got the pictures at hand?
Attachments
Grzesio
ACCESS: Secret
I've found that mysterious missile again:
http://www.wsmr-history.org/NewJersey.htm
Not the Nussknacker for sure, it looks post-war, I think.
Regards
Grzesio
http://www.wsmr-history.org/NewJersey.htm
Not the Nussknacker for sure, it looks post-war, I think.
Regards
Grzesio
To be post-war it must have been late 50`s at least, since weapons development was banned `till 1955. Notice that some electronic items have captions in german. It does look old indeed, but it could relate to a missile other than the "Nussknacker".
Grzesio, while I understand your desire to mark your images, is there any way you could use a smaller watermark in the corner or perhaps just post scans of modest resolution rather than such a large and, frankly, annoying watermark?
Grzesio
ACCESS: Secret
It's a CGI, not a scan.
This watermark is intentionally so annoying, to make everyone's life harder. But I'll think about a little bit less pronounced mark.
This watermark is intentionally so annoying, to make everyone's life harder.
But I'll think about a little bit less pronounced mark.Temistocle
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Hi, I found this drawing and info in the article of Xavier Tracol, "Kriegsmarine, L'arsenal qui ne vit jamais le jour" (The arsenal that never saw the light of day), in the French magazine LOS!, number 12, January-February 2014, page 55.
French version: Dans son centre de Marienfelde-Berlin, Rheinmetall-Borsig conçoit, entre juillet et septembre 1944, un missile antiaérien de courte portée destiné aux « loups gris » de Dönitz. Le MF-5 Nußknacker (« casse-noi-settes ») est censé être efficace contre les appareils volant a basse altitude, c'est-à-dire contre les Liberator et autres Mosquito qui sillonnent les cieux à la recherche du moindre périscope dépassant de la surface... Peu d'informations nous sont parvenues sur ce missile à deux étages. Il aurait dû être radio-guidé grâce au système Kogue de Telefunken, déjà présent sur la fusée surface-air Enzian. Il paraît peu probable que cela eut pu être possible à l'immersion périscopique, même si, dès juin 1942, des tests ont eu lieu à Peenemünde avec le U-511 et des fusées schweres Wurf gerate 41 lancées en surface et en plongée. Ces roquettes - largement employées à terre sur tous les fronts comme arme de saturation de zone - ne sont cependant pas radioguidées. Pour qu'il fonctionne en plongée, le système de guidage de Telefunken aurait certainement exigé a minima l'ajout d'une antenne sur la tête du périscope ou du Schnorchel du U-Boot. Se pose aussi la question de la modalité de lancement du Nußknacker : depuis une simple rampe sur le pont ? Depuis l'affût modifié d'un canon (comme pour beaucoup de missiles allemands à la fin de la guerre) ? Depuis un silo dans la coque du sous-marin ? Les ailettes et la queue du missile empêchent en tout cas son lancement depuis un tube lance-torpilles
From Google translate: In its center in Marienfelde-Berlin, Rheinmetall-Borsig designed, between July and September 1944, a short-range anti-aircraft missile intended for the "gray wolves" of Dönitz. The MF-5 Nußknacker is said to be effective against aircraft flying at low altitude, that is to say against the Liberators and other Mosquito which criss-cross the skies in search of the least periscope exceeding from the surface ... Little information has reached us about this two-stage missile. It should have been radio-guided thanks to the Telefunken Kogue system, already present on the Enzian surface-to-air rocket. It seems unlikely that this could have been possible at periscopic immersion, even if, as of June 1942, tests took place in Peenemünde with the U-511 and Schweres Wurf gerate 41 rockets launched on the surface and underwater. These rockets - widely used on land on all fronts as a zone saturation weapon - are not, however, radio-guided. For it to work in diving, the Telefunken guidance system would certainly have required at least the addition of an antenna on the head of the periscope or the U-Boot snorkel. There is also the question of how to launch the Nußknacker: from a simple ramp on the bridge? Since the modified lookout for a cannon (as with many German missiles at the end of the war)? From a silo in the hull of the submarine? The wings and tail of the missile in any case prevent its launch from a torpedo tube.
| Length | 3.23 m |
| Diameter | 21 cm |
| Max span | 1.29 |
| Mass | 214.5 kg (including explosive charge 11.3 kg) |
| Propulsion | 471.7 g of thrust for 0.9 seconds (1st stage) 231.3 kg of thrust for 10 seconds (2 * stage) |
| Speed | 1862.6 km / h |
French version: Dans son centre de Marienfelde-Berlin, Rheinmetall-Borsig conçoit, entre juillet et septembre 1944, un missile antiaérien de courte portée destiné aux « loups gris » de Dönitz. Le MF-5 Nußknacker (« casse-noi-settes ») est censé être efficace contre les appareils volant a basse altitude, c'est-à-dire contre les Liberator et autres Mosquito qui sillonnent les cieux à la recherche du moindre périscope dépassant de la surface... Peu d'informations nous sont parvenues sur ce missile à deux étages. Il aurait dû être radio-guidé grâce au système Kogue de Telefunken, déjà présent sur la fusée surface-air Enzian. Il paraît peu probable que cela eut pu être possible à l'immersion périscopique, même si, dès juin 1942, des tests ont eu lieu à Peenemünde avec le U-511 et des fusées schweres Wurf gerate 41 lancées en surface et en plongée. Ces roquettes - largement employées à terre sur tous les fronts comme arme de saturation de zone - ne sont cependant pas radioguidées. Pour qu'il fonctionne en plongée, le système de guidage de Telefunken aurait certainement exigé a minima l'ajout d'une antenne sur la tête du périscope ou du Schnorchel du U-Boot. Se pose aussi la question de la modalité de lancement du Nußknacker : depuis une simple rampe sur le pont ? Depuis l'affût modifié d'un canon (comme pour beaucoup de missiles allemands à la fin de la guerre) ? Depuis un silo dans la coque du sous-marin ? Les ailettes et la queue du missile empêchent en tout cas son lancement depuis un tube lance-torpilles
From Google translate: In its center in Marienfelde-Berlin, Rheinmetall-Borsig designed, between July and September 1944, a short-range anti-aircraft missile intended for the "gray wolves" of Dönitz. The MF-5 Nußknacker is said to be effective against aircraft flying at low altitude, that is to say against the Liberators and other Mosquito which criss-cross the skies in search of the least periscope exceeding from the surface ... Little information has reached us about this two-stage missile. It should have been radio-guided thanks to the Telefunken Kogue system, already present on the Enzian surface-to-air rocket. It seems unlikely that this could have been possible at periscopic immersion, even if, as of June 1942, tests took place in Peenemünde with the U-511 and Schweres Wurf gerate 41 rockets launched on the surface and underwater. These rockets - widely used on land on all fronts as a zone saturation weapon - are not, however, radio-guided. For it to work in diving, the Telefunken guidance system would certainly have required at least the addition of an antenna on the head of the periscope or the U-Boot snorkel. There is also the question of how to launch the Nußknacker: from a simple ramp on the bridge? Since the modified lookout for a cannon (as with many German missiles at the end of the war)? From a silo in the hull of the submarine? The wings and tail of the missile in any case prevent its launch from a torpedo tube.
If I do remind well, late 43 (or was it 44? ), German submarines were ordered to surface while crossing the Gascogne gulf. Thanks to the increased accuracy of embarked search radar on allied long range aircraft and their air superiority, it was more efficient for submarines to be ready to engage any attacker with their guns. Each submarine was to be flanked by 2 flack ships escorting them cross the gulf.
This lasted until newer submarines were able to cross the gulf while fully submerged (no snorknel).
It is then straight forward to imagine that missile on deck, ready to be fired. Hence the small wings.
My 2 cents.
This lasted until newer submarines were able to cross the gulf while fully submerged (no snorknel).
It is then straight forward to imagine that missile on deck, ready to be fired. Hence the small wings.
My 2 cents.
I can't be sure, but those could be hinges at the base of the control surfaces to allow the missile to be stored in a relatively small container. In that case, one or more could have been stored on deck in watertight containers (like an upside-down box with the missile on rails attached to the lid). Box off, unfold the wings, ready to fire. Out of the danger zone, ready to submerge, fold up with wings and tail, box back on, latch it down watertight, dive dive dive!
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Comparing it to the relatively similar Rheintochter, I actually don't think so.
(Photo via Flickr )
The way of attching the control surfaces to the missile body seems to have been the same and for the Rheintochter
they definitely were not foldable. With regards to size, a single one of those missiles on a simple launcher, maybe consisting
of pressure tight, turnable cylinder may have roughly equalled a single 37 mm, or a 20 mm quad mount, standard on Type VIIC
Uboats.
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