Northrop Grumman MQ-8C Fire Scout

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"Northrop Grumman Delivers First Operational MQ-8C Fire Scout to the US Navy"
Dec 4, 2014

Source:

Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE: NOC ) has delivered the first operational MQ-8C Fire Scout unmanned helicopter to the US Navy. The system will be used by ship-based commanders to improve the Navy’s intelligence-gathering capabilities.

The MQ-8C is an upgraded version of the existing MQ-8B Fire Scout using a larger airframe. It can fly nearly twice as long and carry three times more intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance payloads.

“The test program will run through the summer as we expect these aircraft to be ready for operations by year’s end,” said George Vardoulakis , vice president for medium range tactical systems with Northrop Grumman.

The MQ-8C’s first ship-board flight tests aboard the USS Jason Dunham (DDG 109) will be conducted this winter. The Navy will then assess the system for operational use.

Northrop Grumman is under contract to build 19 MQ-8C Fire Scouts, including two test aircraft. The Navy plans to purchase 70 aircraft total.

Northrop Grumman is a leading global security company providing innovative systems, products and solutions in unmanned systems, cyber, C4ISR, and logistics and modernization to government and commercial customers worldwide. Please visit www.northropgrumman.com for more information.
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Nice cutaway poster from Flight International.

Source:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/fire-scout-reborn-mq-8c-cutaway-and-technical-description-398400/
 

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TomcatViP said:
www.navalnews.com

Northrop Grumman, Ultra Demonstrate Unmanned ASW Capability - Naval News

Northrop Grumman Corporation and UK-based Ultra equipped a modified, manned Bell 407 (acting as an MQ-8C Fire Scout surrogate) platform with Ultra sonobuoys, receiver and processor to complete an unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capability demonstration.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
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TomcatViP said:
https://www.facebook.com/90319605974/posts/10157978239995975
View: https://www.facebook.com/90319605974/posts/10157978239995975/
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TomcatViP said:
Nice quick shot at sensor display (00:35):
View: https://youtu.be/7jNFL4efoBo
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overscan (PaulMM) said:
Well, that was short-lived, then.
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My impression is that the Firescouts have not been very effective. They struggled with reliability and their sensor "package" was pretty anemic (literally just a FLIR ball, I think). Very hard to justify flying a Bell 407 airframe just for an elevated FLIR.
 
TomS said:
My impression is that the Firescouts have not been very effective. They struggled with reliability and their sensor "package" was pretty anemic (literally just a FLIR ball, I think). Very hard to justify flying a Bell 407 airframe just for an elevated FLIR.
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Plus there are a lot of rapid developments in the UAS space
 
TomS said:
My impression is that the Firescouts have not been very effective. They struggled with reliability and their sensor "package" was pretty anemic (literally just a FLIR ball, I think). Very hard to justify flying a Bell 407 airframe just for an elevated FLIR.
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Not enough lift capacity to have both a good sensor fit (FLIR ball plus sea-search radar at a minimum) and have any lift left over for other systems. Especially doesn't help when modern "lightweight" torpedoes are on the order of 800lbs including parachute.
 
Well things are moving rapidly in the UAV sphere but even so this seems a damp squib, sounds like the truncated LCS programme and deployments hasn't helped its case. It does seem a shame though that something couldn't be done with them.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Not enough lift capacity to have both a good sensor fit (FLIR ball plus sea-search radar at a minimum) and have any lift left over for other systems. Especially doesn't help when modern "lightweight" torpedoes are on the order of 800lbs including parachute.
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I don't think they even tried to hang a torpedo on FireScout. It was never fielded as an ASW asset, although Northrop did demonstrate using it as an ASW sensor platform (sonobouy laying) using IR&D money.


There were a couple of attempts at radar, and supposedly the ZPY-8 Osprey 30 from Leonardo was fitted for operational use from late 2021. But I suspect most of them were never so equipped.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ill-be-equipped-with-leonardo-an-zpy-8-radar/
 
TomS said:
I don't think they even tried to hang a torpedo on FireScout. It was never fielded as an ASW asset, although Northrop did demonstrate using it as an ASW sensor platform (sonobouy laying) using IR&D money.
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I don't remember them actually showing a torpedo under either Fire Scout model, either.

But any naval drone should be expected to have that as a capability, while neither -B nor -C had the ability to lift the full sensors wanted and a torpedo.

Remember, the baseline SH-60B carried a surface-search radar as standard and could get an EO eyeball fitted, the -F was the same on that front (-F had reduced dropping sonobuoys but gained the dipping sonar from SH-3H). Then the -R got radar and EO as standard sensors.


TomS said:
There were a couple of attempts at radar, and supposedly the ZPY-8 Osprey 30 from Leonardo was fitted for operational use from late 2021. But I suspect most of them were never so equipped.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ill-be-equipped-with-leonardo-an-zpy-8-radar/
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Again, the problem was that the radar was heavy enough that all a Fire Scout could lift was either the radar or a couple of Hellfires/Hydra 70 pods.

The next naval helo-drone needs to have a good 3000lbs lift capacity minimum**, so it can pack the EO eyeball, ~600lbs of radar, and a couple of torpedoes. Or some sonobuoys and a single torpedo. Having the ability to carry a MAD as well as all the other sensors would be ideal, but would require a pretty big helo. On the order of a Cobra, which really screws up part of the point of a drone helo, not needing as much hull volume for the hangar and flight deck!


** And will need to be more like 5000lbs lift if the USN goes to bigger ASW torpedoes better able to chase nuclear subs. Something akin to an NT37C (or later suffix), a Mk37 body with a monopropellant engine for speed instead of electric power.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Again, the problem was that the radar was heavy enough that all a Fire Scout could lift was either the radar or a couple of Hellfires/Hydra 70 pods.
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Do we know that for certain? Osprey 30 is a very light radar (around 100 pounds for 3 AESA arrays and the processor).

I'm not sure we need to replicate the full capability of a manned helo in a single drone. For example, I can absolutely see value if a smaller drone family where one has long endurance and only sensors, with another model carrying one or two torpedoes at the expense of long endurance. Return to the hunter-killer concept, where one platform detects and localizes, then another delivers the weapons. (Ship-launched standoff weapons like VL ASROC could supplement or even replace the killer element).

I think the USN is more interested in increasing the speed/energy density of lightweight torps (Mk 54 Mod 2 with SCEPS, for example) and has no interest in a dramatically larger weapon that would not be compatible with existing shipboard launchers, helicopters, VLA, etc.
 
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TomS said:
I think the USN is more interested in increasing the speed/energy density of lightweight torps (Mk 54 Mod 2 with SCEPS, for example) and has no interest in a dramatically larger weapon that would not be compatible with existing shipboard launchers, helicopters, VLA, etc.
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They may ultimately have no choice but to bite the bullet though.
 
I wonder what went wrong. I actually thought it was a good strategy to take the lessons learned over the years (A/B-model) and transfer it to a more capable, well proven and available airframe (C-model). The initial version, based on a Schweizer 330SP, made its first flight 24 years ago.
 
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TomS said:
Do we know that for certain? Osprey 30 is a very light radar (around 100 pounds for 3 AESA arrays and the processor).
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Part of that may have been available mounting points. Radar went on the same hardpoints as the weapons in the Fire Scout Bs.


TomS said:
I'm not sure we need to replicate the full capability of a manned helo in a single drone. For example, I can absolutely see value if a smaller drone family where one has long endurance and only sensors, with another model carrying one or two torpedoes at the expense of long endurance. Return to the hunter-killer concept, where one platform detects and localizes, then another delivers the weapons. (Ship-launched standoff weapons like VL ASROC could supplement or even replace the killer element).
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Every time a system has started off as separate hunter-killer elements, it has always been pushed to a single airframe.

Avengers, Skyraiders, any early ASW helo...



TomS said:
I think the USN is more interested in increasing the speed/energy density of lightweight torps (Mk 54 Mod 2 with SCEPS, for example) and has no interest in a dramatically larger weapon that would not be compatible with existing shipboard launchers, helicopters, VLA, etc.
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I'm not sure that the Mk50/Mk54Mod2 is sufficently capable to catch a modern nuclear submarine.
 
VTOLicious said:
I wonder what went wrong.
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The programme approach looks good, but I think it's the air vehicle solution that's the problem.

The helicopter simply takes up too much space on board the ship. Instead you could have a similar payload on a much smaller (and cheaper) fixed wing aircraft which also offers you much greater endurance. Now with many strap on quad rotor kits then these can also VTOL.
 

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