North Sea Boats 63m Fast Trimaran Missile Boat

[Triton]

Artist's impression of 63m Fast Trimaran Missile Boat manufactured by North Sea Boats (Indonesia). The Indonesian Navy has ordered four boats. Also known as the X3K class.

Source:
http://www.northseaboats.com/63m_fast_missile.htm#.UDusaaNp5ht
http://www.kaskus.co.id/showthread.php?p=589573832
http://stardefense.blogspot.com/2012/01/indonesia-bys-4-trimarans.html
http://mypariwisata-machineguns.blogspot.com/2011/12/trimaran-dogfight-ship-indonesian.html

 

[Triton]

Source:
http://pojokmiliter.blogspot.com/2011/12/x3k-trimaran-indonesia-segera-memiliki.html#.UDuz6aNp5hs

 

[TomS]

Man, I'd hate to be on the bridge when that gun starts going off.

 

[RP1]

I was wondering about that. The impression with it as a 76mm seems to be incorrect, to judge by the other images. I think it might be <40mm?


RP1

 

[Triton]

Launching ceremony to be held August 31, 2012.

Source:
http://northseaboats.com/news/#.UDvO16Np5hs

 

[Triton]

Source:
http://alutsista.blogspot.com/2011/12/kapal-cepat-rudal-trimaran-buatan.html

 

[Creative]

Some launch photos and a pic of her in the water here.
http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2012/08/kri-klewang-625-diluncurkan.html

http://mik-news.blogspot.com/2012/08/kumpulan-foto-kri-klewang-kcr-trimaran.html

 

[Grey Havoc]

Here are a few more photos: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?217393-Stealth-Boats

 

[Grey Havoc]

OUCH!: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?218203-Indonesian-New-Stealth-Trimaran-Destroyed-In-Flames

 

[1st503rdSGT]

Jeez! Damn thing burnt to the waterline dockside. It was really neat to see an advanced warship that could be built in a shed and pulled down to the beach on inflatable rollers, but I guess 3rd world safety standards aren't up to the job.

 

[Sea Skimmer]

Not really any different then the Norwegian minehunter Orkla being totally destroyed by fire, while in operations with a crew on board no less. This is an innate risk of building a vessel out of fiberglass or other materials basically made out of glue, if anything is able to ignite it its going to burn like napalm and is near impossible to extinguish in confined spaces.

Orkla burned because Norways first world safety standards concluded that a space holding a high temperature gearbox for one of her lift fans did not need a fire alarm, and the bearings in the space overheated enough to ignite the hull. She had to be abandon within minutes. You can put fire proofing chemicals in GRP but it only makes it burn slower.

 

[1st503rdSGT]

Not really any different then the Norwegian minehunter Orkla being totally destroyed by fire, while in operations with a crew on board no less. This is an innate risk of building a vessel out of fiberglass or other materials basically made out of glue, if anything is able to ignite it its going to burn like napalm and is near impossible to extinguish in confined spaces.

Orkla burned because Norways first world safety standards concluded that a space holding a high temperature gearbox for one of her lift fans did not need a fire alarm, and the bearings in the space overheated enough to ignite the hull. She had to be abandon within minutes. You can put fire proofing chemicals in GRP but it only makes it burn slower.

That was underway, this (as I already mentioned) was dockside. You're right though, the materials used have inherent risks. This is something the USN needs to think about when planning to deal with Iranian boat swarms. It might be worthwhile to consider adding a little WP to some of our weapons.

As an aside, I wonder how this bodes for the Zumwalt-class wheelhouses.

 

[Sea Skimmer]

The DDG-1000 test models took so much water over the decks any fire may be self extinguishing as long as you can keep moving.
WP is a rather poor incendiary, though some other forms of phosphorous work better. Termite and zirconium are the incendiaries of choice today. Most US autocannon ammunition and cluster bomblets already have zirconium pellets or rings to give them an incendiary effect, but I don’t think it’s too important when your blowing 2-3 man craft.

 

[Hobbes]

(imagines chucking a ballista-load of termites at an enemy vessel)

tHermite is what you want B)

 

[_Del_]

You need to keep up on our latest tech: http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0726/Exploding-termites-Aging-termites-become-suicide-bombers-finds-study-video

 

[Abraham Gubler]

That was underway, this (as I already mentioned) was dockside. You're right though, the materials used have inherent risks. This is something the USN needs to think about when planning to deal with Iranian boat swarms. It might be worthwhile to consider adding a little WP to some of our weapons.

During the tanker war conventional HE and flechette 2.75” FFARs proved extremely effective against Iranian Boghammers and other boats. The flechette 2.75 seemed the most effective with pretty much total incapacitation for any IRGC boat caught in the flechette footprint. In once fight after disabling and pretty much killing and wounding everyone onboard with a flechette the US Army helo pilot was down to a single flechette rocket left. He really wanted to sink the Boghammer so flew in close enough that the flechette warhead wouldn’t deploy and fired the rocket like a giant harpoon. It went straight through and sunk the Boghammer strait away. That particular boat was later salvaged by the USN and restored to working order for trials back in America.

 

[1st503rdSGT]

That was underway, this (as I already mentioned) was dockside. You're right though, the materials used have inherent risks. This is something the USN needs to think about when planning to deal with Iranian boat swarms. It might be worthwhile to consider adding a little WP to some of our weapons.

During the tanker war conventional HE and flechette 2.75” FFARs proved extremely effective against Iranian Boghammers and other boats. The flechette 2.75 seemed the most effective with pretty much total incapacitation for any IRGC boat caught in the flechette footprint. In once fight after disabling and pretty much killing and wounding everyone onboard with a flechette the US Army helo pilot was down to a single flechette rocket left. He really wanted to sink the Boghammer so flew in close enough that the flechette warhead wouldn’t deploy and fired the rocket like a giant harpoon. It went straight through and sunk the Boghammer strait away. That particular boat was later salvaged by the USN and restored to working order for trials back in America.

I'd never heard that story. B) Also, I had to look up what Boghammer meant... learn something new here every day. ;D

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I'd never heard that story. Also, I had to look up what Boghammer meant... learn something new here every day.

“America's First Clash With Iran: The Tanker War, 1987-88”by Lee Allen Zatarain is a good source on these fights. Also very illuminating about naval operations in a complex environment like the Persian Gulf. Most of us without naval experience tend to think its all pretty clear cut and un-complex compared to land operations. The sea is flat and they have lots of radars and all that. But the reality looks very different.

 

[1st503rdSGT]

I'd never heard that story. Also, I had to look up what Boghammer meant... learn something new here every day.

“America's First Clash With Iran: The Tanker War, 1987-88”by Lee Allen Zatarain is a good source on these fights. Also very illuminating about naval operations in a complex environment like the Persian Gulf. Most of us without naval experience tend to think its all pretty clear cut and un-complex compared to land operations. The sea is flat and they have lots of radars and all that. But the reality looks very different.

I've only ever read a few blurbs and seen a few old news clips on Operation Praying Mantis. One of the funnier bits I saw was some footage from one of the frigates. Dudes were standing on the open part of the bridge with MANPADS. Talk about a ghetto-a$$ approach to CIWS.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I've only ever read a few blurbs and seen a few old news clips on Operation Praying Mantis. One of the funnier bits I saw was some footage from one of the frigates. Dudes were standing on the open part of the bridge with MANPADS. Talk about a ghetto-a$$ approach to CIWS.

Most of the ship fits of CIWS at this time had significant black spots of coverage. So Stingers were issued to cover these zones. But on the plus side a lot of missiles fired at USN ships (Exocet, Silkworm) had very high visual signatures because they were rocket powered. So the Stinger operators should have been able to get a lock on. Fortunately the only Harpoon (turbojet powered so hard to see) fired by the Iranians at the USN failed one mile out thanks to no contractor maintenance over the then past 10 years.

 

[1st503rdSGT]

I've only ever read a few blurbs and seen a few old news clips on Operation Praying Mantis. One of the funnier bits I saw was some footage from one of the frigates. Dudes were standing on the open part of the bridge with MANPADS. Talk about a ghetto-a$$ approach to CIWS.

Most of the ship fits of CIWS at this time had significant black spots of coverage. So Stingers were issued to cover these zones. But on the plus side a lot of missiles fired at USN ships (Exocet, Silkworm) had very high visual signatures because they were rocket powered. So the Stinger operators should have been able to get a lock on. Fortunately the only Harpoon (turbojet powered so hard to see) fired by the Iranians at the USN failed one mile out thanks to no contractor maintenance over the then past 10 years.

One more question about the Boghammer. An Army bird sank it?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

One more question about the Boghammer. An Army bird sank it?

When the US committed to reflagging Kuwait ships and opening up the Gulf the USN didn’t have a helicopter able to take on the small Iranian speedboats. So 160 SO Avn Regt provided two sections of one MH-6 (with FLIR) and two AH-6 (with Minigun and 2.75) Little Birds to provide a boat hunter-killer capability. This was Operation PRIME CHANCE. The Little Birds flew from FFGs and later two sea barges. To free up TF-160 capability a new TF-118 from the regular army aviation equipped with the first Kiowa Warriors (AHIP) were later deployed.

The book I mention above plus even Wikipedia has lots more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Prime_Chance

 

[1st503rdSGT]

One more question about the Boghammer. An Army bird sank it?

When the US committed to reflagging Kuwait ships and opening up the Gulf the USN didn’t have a helicopter able to take on the small Iranian speedboats. So 160 SO Avn Regt provided two sections of one MH-6 (with FLIR) and two AH-6 (with Minigun and 2.75) Little Birds to provide a boat hunter-killer capability. This was Operation PRIME CHANCE. The Little Birds flew from FFGs and later two sea barges. To free up TF-160 capability a new TF-118 from the regular army aviation equipped with the first Kiowa Warriors (AHIP) were later deployed.

The book I mention above plus even Wikipedia has lots more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Prime_Chance

Sounds like improvisation at its best.

 

[Triton]

This is an innate risk of building a vessel out of fiberglass or other materials basically made out of glue, if anything is able to ignite it its going to burn like napalm and is near impossible to extinguish in confined spaces.

The same fire risk for vessels made from carbon composites? I read that the KRI Klewang was made from carbon composites.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

The same fire risk for vessels made from carbon composites? I read that the KRI Klewang was made from carbon composites.

The fire problem with glass reinforced plastic (GRP, fibreglass is a trademark name) and carbon composites tends to be the resins that holds the various layers together. So whilst carbon composite and GRP may have very different materials they both suffer from the resin or glue problem.

 

[Rickshaw]

The same fire risk for vessels made from carbon composites? I read that the KRI Klewang was made from carbon composites.

The fire problem with glass reinforced plastic (GRP, fibreglass is a trademark name) and carbon composites tends to be the resins that holds the various layers together. So whilst carbon composite and GRP may have very different materials they both suffer from the resin or glue problem.

That may be true of GRP. It is not necessarily always true of Carbon Fibre:

Fire resistance of polymers or thermoset composites is significantly improved if a thin layer of carbon fibers is molded near the surface—dense, compact layer of carbon fibers efficiently reflects heat.

[Source]

 

[Sea Skimmer]

Notice how they still say fire resistance and heat reflection. As in it will still burn, its just harder to ignite which may not mean very much with a fire cooking inside a warship. If anyone could make an actual fireproof composite like this they'd have a tremendous market. As it is many of the glues already have fire retardants mixed in, but the effect is limited if you want to keep up strength.

 

[Rickshaw]

I am unsure what the real problem is. Light craft have always been constructed of light-weight, often quite flammable materials because those materials tend to be light and strong. MTBs, MGBs, PT-boats were all timber construction. Even the E-boats were timber hulled I believe. They aren't designed to sustain anything except light damage. While it is possible to make Carbon Fibre surfaces fire resistant, they aren't going to be any more able to prevent penetration from splinters and/or projectiles.

 

[mz]

Notice how they still say fire resistance and heat reflection. As in it will still burn, its just harder to ignite which may not mean very much with a fire cooking inside a warship. If anyone could make an actual fireproof composite like this they'd have a tremendous market. As it is many of the glues already have fire retardants mixed in, but the effect is limited if you want to keep up strength.

There are other glues (than traditional vinyl or epoxy) like polyimides that have much higher temperature tolerance. Still much less than metals though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyimide

There are also fire resistant coatings like Nonburnite too which even make stuff like composite liquid oxygen tanks possible.

 

[TomS]

“America's First Clash With Iran: The Tanker War, 1987-88”by Lee Allen Zatarain is a good source on these fights.

I'd been meaning to pick this up for a while. Thanks for the recommendation.

BTW: There's something really weird about how this book is titled. Amazon lists it as both "America's First Clash with Iran" and "America's First Conflict with Iran." The cover art of the latter clearly reads "America's First War with Iran."

 

[Bill Walker]

There are other glues (than traditional vinyl or epoxy) like polyimides that have much higher temperature tolerance. Still much less than metals though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyimide

There are also fire resistant coatings like Nonburnite too which even make stuff like composite liquid oxygen tanks possible.

From experience testing light aircraft composite materials for fire resistance, polyimides offer much lower mechanical properties than epoxies, and fire resistant coatings offer only a brief time advantage. Do you want your boat to totally burn up in 5 minutes or 15 minutes? The coatings I am familiar with are a total PITA from a production point of view, and require regular maintenance. And that is flying around in the air, not bouncing around in salt water.

 

[shedofdread]

Just as a further bit of info, fire retardant resins typically have a higher viscosity so you end up with a worse resin : fibre ratio and thus a heavier part for a given strength.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I'd been meaning to pick this up for a while. Thanks for the recommendation.

BTW: There's something really weird about how this book is titled. Amazon lists it as both "America's First Clash with Iran" and "America's First Conflict with Iran." The cover art of the latter clearly reads "America's First War with Iran."

My copy says ‘Clash’ and neither clash, conflict or war is right. It is a good book with plenty of hard military data (though written for a general audience) to have worthwhile operational lessons. Also informative of just how nasty but ineffective Iran was in the Gulf before the USN got involved.

Surprisingly also that the rather professionally marginal Iraqi Exocet attacks were so highly effective. They caused a lot more damage than anything the Iranians did. We sometimes get carried away about the effectiveness of asymmetric threats. But when it comes to sinking ships a Mirage F1 with a flying fish missile is going to do a lot more damage than a bunch of speed boats with RPGs.

 

[TomS]

I'd been meaning to pick this up for a while. Thanks for the recommendation.

BTW: There's something really weird about how this book is titled. Amazon lists it as both "America's First Clash with Iran" and "America's First Conflict with Iran." The cover art of the latter clearly reads "America's First War with Iran."

My copy says ‘Clash’ and neither clash, conflict or war is right.

I think the publisher is to blame. They have the exact same mix of titles as Amazon:

http://www.casematepublishing.com/title.php?isbn=9781935149361

Looks like there was a change between hardback and paperback editions.

 

[GTX]

PT Lundin Launches Trimaran Stealth Vessel for Indonesian Navy - Overt Defense

PT Lundin launched future KRI Golok (688) trimaran hull fast attack craft for the Indonesian Navy on the 21st of August at Banyuwangi shipyard, East Java.

www.overtdefense.com