New VTOL aircraft?

Another one bites the dust? How many have been suggested and mostly with startups? How many are we seeing in the wild wild world? How much will be 'skimmed off the top" before it shuts down like the rest?
 
After searching the recent registrations in the Kern County (where Mojave is situated) I've found only two aircraft recently registered/certificated in that county, but none of them can be it:
  • SCHAETZEL HRII - s/n 345 - manufacturing year unknown - certificated January 22, 2025 - registered N214HR
    Fixed-wing type. However, and it's a single-engine type, so it can't be it. Plus the address is not in Mojave.
  • SCALED COMPOSITES N432SF - s/n 003 - manufactured in 2024 - certificated August 13, 2024 - registered N432SF
    It's an as-yet undocumented type located in Mojave, but it can't be it either because it is described as glider.
However, there is another Scaled Composites aircraft that is not yet certified and that could fit the bill. It's the Model 444, for which the registrations N444LX and N444NS were reserved on September 5, 2024, which suggests that two prototypes of that new type are planned to be built. My initial hunch was that the Model 444 could be related to the XRQ-73 SHEPARD, but who knows? Our mystery aircraft has a Pi-tail design which is very similar to two earlier Scaled Composites types: the Model 133 ATTT in its first configuration, and the Model 255 "Old School" (the prototype for the Northrop Grumman Firebird).
 
Stargazer said:
After searching the recent registrations in the Kern County (where Mojave is situated) I've found only two aircraft recently registered/certificated in that county, but none of them can be it:
  • SCHAETZEL HRII - s/n 345 - manufacturing year unknown - certificated January 22, 2025 - registered N214HR
    Fixed-wing type. However, and it's a single-engine type, so it can't be it. Plus the address is not in Mojave.
  • SCALED COMPOSITES N432SF - s/n 003 - manufactured in 2024 - certificated August 13, 2024 - registered N432SF
    It's an as-yet undocumented type located in Mojave, but it can't be it either because it is described as glider.
However, there is another Scaled Composites aircraft that is not yet certified and that could fit the bill. It's the Model 444, for which the registrations N444LX and N444NS were reserved on September 5, 2024, which suggests that two prototypes of that new type are planned to be built. My initial hunch was that the Model 444 could be related to the XRQ-73 SHEPARD, but who knows? Our mystery aircraft has a Pi-tail design which is very similar to two earlier Scaled Composites types: the Model 133 ATTT in its first configuration, and the Model 255 "Old School" (the prototype for the Northrop Grumman Firebird).
Click to expand...


Maybe N362ZK
 
The trick here would be to not have oversized tilt engines and rotors by substituting them with E-engines.

The drawback will be in vertical flight that will be limited regarding a conventional helo. It's more an aircraft that can do stationary flight.

Regarding Scaled Composites, it seems this airframe is largely made out of... aluminum.
 
I posted this (below) at https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/textron-eaviation-inc-nexus-evtol.45388/

I am going to make a wild prognostication here.
The Mojave Mystery VTOL is a hybrid electric/turbine demonstrator light cargo aircraft being developed at AFWERX behest to investigate VTOL platforms for its expeditionary fighting concepts. A follow on from their investigations with the EVTOL the last couple of years. The tail assembly speaks to a rear ramp that will allow small(er) forklifts to on and offload pallets. Since it is a demonstrator, the fuselage does not have to actually fit pallets, especially since it is likely full of test instrumentation. The four electric driven rotors for VTOL takeoff and landing are comparatively light weight and like Beta's Alia, able to be stowed with aerodynamic efficiency, although the picture makes the rotors look less drag efficient. They should also add to efficient STOL take off, when possible, to reduce fuel burn on takeoff. Given the full-length flaps seen in the pictures the aircraft should be able to do very short landings too, if carrying larger loads. The relatively simple tricycle landing gear are sufficient for demonstration to keep cost down. It is not too hard to see sponsons with fuel or other additional space for retractable gear if the program continues.
Now for the real wild part. Tilt rotor is not a simple engineering effort. An electric tilt rotor is even more specialized. There is, to my knowledge only one aircraft engineering company who has done an all-electric (other than the turbine propulsion itself) VTOL cargo aircraft in the past. Karem Aerospace. So, I think they might be involved. I might also throw BETA Technologies into the mix as they have experience with transition from VTOL propulsion to powered. BETA has mentioned working on hybrid as well.

Hope this experiment works. Love the idea.

To comment on @Stargazer (s) analysis above, I agree that it could be another Rutan endeavor as they are most known for unconventional aircraft. However, they have to my knowledge, little to no experience with tilt rotor beyond initial concept work we have all seen. Karem has significant experience with tilt rotor aircraft, electrical components, EVTOL and they have teamed with NG on other projects. They are also a SOCAL based company, so it could be a joint endeavor. While it may draw some of the design from a glider, for aerodynamic efficiency, I would think a new wing would be needed to deal with the significant increase on weight at the end of each wing. The wing will likely experience significant torsion as well if the proprotor/nacelle at the end of the wings do house engines. I note that the 3 bladed(?) proprotors have a significantly wider cord (like those seen on Bell tilt rotor, so they are to my thinking the primary propulsors for wing born flight. Finally, if this is as I suppose an AFWERX demonstrator I think this also points toward hybrid power as I think I recall that AFWERK has moved toward more hybrid approach from direct EVTOL solutions.

I think I have about ~33% chance of being close. But I am an optimist ;)
 
Stargazer said:
Very interesting indeed! Still, the design strikes me more as a Scaled Composites one rather than a Karem, but who knows?
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The entry for N362ZK says it has a 2-cycle engine. This aircraft clearly has turboprops.

The entry also says N362ZK is designated a TR-8. Based on the TR-36 and TR-53, Karem's naming convention for tiltrotors seems to be TR-[rotor diameter in feet]. If so, TR-8 is much smaller than this design.

ETA: Interestingly, there are three aircraft designated as Karem TR-8s, all registered on November 27, 2024. Serial 00001 is N362ZK, Serial 00002 is N102KA and Serial 00003 is N477DM. Do those codes suggest anything to anyone else?


 
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TomS said:
The entry for N362ZK says it has a 2-cycle engine. This aircraft clearly has turboprops.

The entry also says N362ZK is designated a TR-8. Based on the TR-36 and TR-53, Karem's naming convention for tiltrotors seems to be TR-[rotor diameter in feet]. If so, TR-8 is much smaller than this design.

ETA: Interestingly, there are three aircraft designated as Karem TR-8s, all registered on November 27, 2024. Serial 00001 is N362ZK, Serial 00002 is N102KA and Serial 00003 is N477DM. Do those codes suggest anything to anyone else?


Click to expand...

My hunch is that the Karem TR-8 is their entry in the DARPA Ancillary project:

DARPA Shows Concepts for the Future of VTOL Uncrewed Aerial Systems

www.darpa.mil www.darpa.mil

imanetwork.org

Karem Aircraft Design Advances in DARPA ANCILLARY Drone Program - IMA Network

Karem Aircraft, Inc. is advancing into the next phase of the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency’s (DARPA) Tactical Technology Office’s AdvaNced airCraft Infrastructure-Less Launch And RecoverY (ANCILLARY) program. The program intends to develop a long-endurance, shipboard platform...
imanetwork.org imanetwork.org

Perhaps better suited for this thread?

 
TomS said:
The entry for N362ZK says it has a 2-cycle engine. This aircraft clearly has turboprops.

The entry also says N362ZK is designated a TR-8. Based on the TR-36 and TR-53, Karem's naming convention for tiltrotors seems to be TR-[rotor diameter in feet]. If so, TR-8 is much smaller than this design.

ETA: Interestingly, there are three aircraft designated as Karem TR-8s, all registered on November 27, 2024. Serial 00001 is N362ZK, Serial 00002 is N102KA and Serial 00003 is N477DM. Do those codes suggest anything to anyone else?


Click to expand...

When it comes to unconventional aircraft the FAA information is frequently wrong because the design doesn’t fit into FAA’s existing conventions.

The Scaled 444 is definitely registered as a glider, but if I recall correctly Space Ship One was as well! And I’ve seen aircraft with turbines listed as having 2-cycle engines, etc.

So I would not read too much into the engine information unless it lists a specific model of engine, and even then I would use caution
 
quellish said:
When it comes to unconventional aircraft the FAA information is frequently wrong because the design doesn’t fit into FAA’s existing conventions.

The Scaled 444 is definitely registered as a glider, but if I recall correctly Space Ship One was as well! And I’ve seen aircraft with turbines listed as having 2-cycle engines, etc.

So I would not read too much into the engine information unless it lists a specific model of engine, and even then I would use caution
Click to expand...

That's fair. I think the TR-8 designation is probably a better hint, though. It fits very well in the appropriate size for ANCILLARY. Unless Karem have thrown away their system (which is possible but seems unlikely) TR-8 is way smaller than this mystery tilt-rotor.
 
The tail boom appears to be a structural rather than aerodynamic structure, its tubular rather than profiled for the airflow.

I think we may be looking at some special forces VTOL insertion vehicle designed to overcome the limitations of Chinook range, its towed to the deployment point and has the power once its mission is complete to return either to a secondary airfield or redock with its mothership.
 
Well, congrats to Hyundai for this great looking design.

I think we can rename this thread more appropriately for the future of this discussion.

Note:
The fuselage and landing gear says Kaman to me :eek:
 
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quellish said:

Supernal's eVTOL Prototype Breaks Cover At Mojave | Aviation Week Network

A full-scale electric vertical-takeoff-and-landing aircraft belonging to Supernal is undergoing ground testing at Mojave Air & Space Port in California.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
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This is the article AvWeek cites

theaircurrent.com

Supernal prepares eVTOL technology demonstrator for first flight in Mojave - The Air Current

Mystery aircraft spotted at the Mojave Air and Space Port is an earlier iteration of the Hyundai subsidiary’s eVTOL air taxi design
theaircurrent.com theaircurrent.com
 
I have no reason to doubt Aviation Week's identification of the airplane; however, I feel compelled to say that there hasn't been a single page in Korean covering the subject so far. I find it strange since it is a Korean product, so in all logic there should be someone, somewhere, reporting on a Korean page that Supernal is having a prototype ready in the US...

Also, considering Scaled Composites is a contractor for many companies, I still stand by my conviction that the Supernal prototype was developed by Scaled. Otherwise, why build it and test it in Mojave?

Finally, one Supernal aircraft shows up in the FAA registry:
  • Manufacturer: Supernal LLC
  • Model: FSTD1*
  • Serial number: 001
  • Type Aircraft: Fixed Wing Multi-Engine
  • Type Engine: Electric
  • Certificate Issue Date: May 20, 2024
  • Registration: N583TD
  • Registered owner: TVPX Aircraft Solutions Inc. Trustee, North Salt Lake, Utah.
* meaning "Full Scale Technology Demonstrator #1"​
A second type, the Supernal Sup83-1 , is also listed as a six-engine electric airplane but not registered. After searching for more information on it, I found it suffered an accident in 2023 and was written off:
  • Date: Thursday 29 June 2023
  • Time: 08:05
  • Type: Supernal SUP83-1
  • Owner/operator: TVPX Aircraft Solutions Inc Trustee opb Supernal LLC
  • Registration: N283TD
  • MSN: 002
  • Fatalities: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 0
  • Other fatalities: 0
  • Aircraft damage: Substantial
  • Category: Accident
  • Location: California City, CA - United States of America
  • Phase: Manoeuvring (airshow, firefighting, ag.ops.)
  • Nature: Test
  • Departure airport: California City, CA
  • Destination airport: California City, CA
  • Investigating agency: NTSB
  • Confidence Rating: Accident investigation report completed and information captured
On June 29, 2023, at 0805 Pacific daylight time (PDT), a Supernal, LLC., SUP83-1 unmanned aircraft system, N283TD, received substantial damage during a developmental test flight at the manufacturer’s test site. There were no injuries.​
Click to expand...
Further in the page, we learn that the SUP83-1 was a 25% scale UAV (most likely a subscale demonstrator for the aircraft photographed in Mojave):
The accident aircraft, a SUP83-1 unmanned aircraft system, serial number 002, manufactured in 2023, registered to TVPX Aircraft Solutions Inc., and operated by Supernal LLC., as a 25% subscale unmanned test aircraft used to research distributed electric propulsion technologies. The aircraft has six propulsors driven by electric motors that are powered by lithium-ion battery packs. The aircraft can perform vertical take-offs and landings and can be reconfigured to horizontal flight with lift being generated by its wings. The aircraft is controlled from a handheld transmitter by a remote pilot and monitored by a PC laptop ground station linked to the aircraft via telemetry radios inside a mobile trailer at the test site.​
Click to expand...
Source (with a much more detailed account of the accident): https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/401656​
​
The presence of the number "83" in the registration of both aircraft suggests the two aircraft are probably related.
 
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More on the FSTD1 prototype in this letter addressed to the U.S. Department of Transportation by James Harris, Head of Test & Evaluation at Supernal LLC:
https://downloads.regulations.gov/FAA-2022-1757-0008/attachment_1.pdf

Also, according to Air Britain, four registrations were reserved by Supernal for the SUP83-1 demonstrators in May 2022.
Source: https://fliphtml5.com/lbsh/hwur/Air-Britain_News_2022-06/
  • 001: N183TD
  • 002: N283TD
  • 003: N383TD
  • 004: N483TD
So as you can see, FSTD1 #001 follows up logically as N583TD, all five being unmanned.
However, according to The Air Current, the FSTD1 is the one in the photos, a full-scale aircraft:
https://theaircurrent.com/aircraft-...-technology-demonstrator-first-flight-mojave/

So apparently it's not strictly unmanned, but probably optionally manned.
 
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Now I wish I'd seen this here photograph before embarking on my wild VTOL glider theories... Contrary to the first photo that was released, this one clearly shows the wings in their entirety, and the two larger rotors to be tilt-rotors on wingtip nacelles!

1739490446378.png

And the wing, of composite construction:

1739490712456.png

Source: https://www.twz.com/air/mystery-tiltrotor-aircraft-identified
 
Its certainly not a demonstrator for their S-A2 design which theyve been marketing as a civil aircraft, thats a radically different 8 prop design with the front four being pivoting and a V tail though the scale is similar from a distance. For instance the demonstrator clearly has a cockpit windshield designed for two pilots rather than one and the entire wingpod doesnt pivot, its also about two-three times the size. You could say they look related though. Theres also that opening on the front of the demonstrator suggesting its nose is either a replaceable panel or housing a radome, it doesnt look to be shaped for maximising pilots landing view.

Supernal_Vehicle_CES.original.format-webp.webp


The Specs they give for the S-A2 is:
Range: 60 Miles
Cruising Speed: 120mph+
Passengers: 4+1 Pilot
Payload: 1000lbs
 
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Have to agree with @WatcherZero that the demonstrator is not a direct prototype. One might argue that it is a flying test stand for all of the dynamic components of S-A2, but I do not think so. Soth Korea is very active in development their rotorcraft industry and partnering with others. This might be another activity. I will defer to the more aero-educated members, but having electric supplementary VTOL propulsion might allow you to have less installed power for VTOL operations while not having auxiliary engines and fans weight factor that has killed most VTOL platforms in the past.
My main rational for this line of thinking is that the nacelles on the end of the wings seems very robust for an electric motor driven proprotor. Likewise, the proprotors attached to the nacelles appear vastly different from those on the sponsons. If those are the propulsors for cruise, then larger electric motors might be needed, which in turn might require larger nacelles for cooling. Given that weight is even more critical on EVTOL than conventional or hybrid VTOL, unless Supernal is going for more long-distance passenger segments this would seem strange. The current S-A2 does not appear to have this arrangement.
The landing gear is surprisingly wide (more weight and drag too) for conventional EVTOL operations. The landing gear looks more like that of aircraft that are expected to operate in unimproved and potentially sloped ground.

All that said it is probably just another boring EVTOL.
 

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