New book - Sonderwaffen - Experimental guns, rockets and missiles used by the Luftwaffe during World War Two.

[Justo Miranda]

CONTENTS

GUNS

Ikaria MG FF (20-mm)

Mauser MG 151 Series (15/20-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig MK 103 (30-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig MK 108 (30-mm)

Mauser MG 81 (7.92-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 131 (13-mm)

Mauser MG/MK 213 C

Rheinmetall-Borsig BK 3.7 (37-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig BK 5 (50-mm)

Mauser MK 214 A (50-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig MK 112 (55-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig BK 75 (75-mm)

Schrägwaffen (Schräge Musik)

Gustloff HF 15 (Höhe Feuerfolge)

RECOILLESS GUNS

Rheinmetall-Borsig Düka 75

Rheinmetall-Borsig Düka 88

Rheinmetall-Borsig Düka 280

WKW Sondergerät SG 104

Hasag-Schneider KG 25-mm Harfe

Rheinmetall-Borsig SG 113a Förstersonde

Rheinmetall-Borsig SG 116 Zellendusche

Rheinmetall-Borsig SG 117 Rohrblock 108

Reinmetall-Borsig SG 118 Rohrblocktrommel

Reinmetall-Borsig Sondergerät SG 119 Rohrbatterie

HASAG Sondergerät SG 500 Jagdfaust

Spin-Stabilized Rockets

Rheinmetall-Borsig RZ 65B

Rheinmetall-Borsig RZ 73

Rheinmetall-Borsig RZ 100

Trommelgerät

7.3 cm Föhn Gerät

Vielfachwerfer Föhn

Bienenwabe B3-24

Bordsprengrakete W.Gr 21

Werferrohr

Vierlingswerfer

Werferdrehling

Trommelmagazin

Do-Werfer

Krebs-Gerät

14WK BS (Wurfkörper Brandschrapnelrakete)

Ar 234 Werferzerstörer

Solid-propellants rocket engines

Fin-Stabilized Rockets (Air-to-Air)

Rheinmetall Borsig R100 Series

Kurt Heber- R4M Orkan Series

Federtrommel

Trommelanlage

15er Wave

Fin-stabilized rockets (Anti-Tank)

Raketenpanzerbüsche Granate 4992

Raketenkpanzerbüsche 43 Ofenrohr

Fliegerschreck

Panzerschreck

Fliegende Panzerschreck Series

PD 8.8-cm Pz Büchsenrohr

Panzerblitz Pz (Panzerabwehrrakete) Series



MISSILES (Air-to-air)

Henschel Hs 298 Luftkampfrakete

Ruhrstahl 8-344 (X-4) Jägerrakete

Bi-propellant rocket engines



MISSILES (Anti-ship)

LFA Hecht

Henschel Hs 293 Series

Henschel Hs 294

Henschel Hs 295

Henschel Hs 296

Ruhrstal-Kramer Fritz X Series

Lippisch GB3/L

Blohm und Voss BV 226 Series

Blohm und Voss BV 246 Series

Blohm und Voss BV 143 Series

Arado E 377

Arado E 377a

Junkers Ju 268


SB 800 RS Kurtbombe Series

Henschel Zitterrochen

Aerial Torpedoes

Blohm und Voss LT F5

Blohm und Voss LT F5b

Torpedo Gliders

DVL GT1 Gleittorpedo

Blohm und Voss LT 950 Series

Blohm und Voss L.11 Schneewittchen

Henschel GT 1200 Series

LFA LT 9,2 Frosch

Graf Zeppelin BT Series

Anti-tank Missiles

Ruhrstahl-Kramer 8-347 (X7)

Anti-aircraft rockets

Rheinmetall-Borsig RZ 65B

Henschel Hs 217 Föhn

EMW Taifun

EMW Wirbelsturm

Rheinmetall-Borsig Reinkind

Osenberg Planet

Anti-aircraft missiles

Henschel Hs 117 Schmetterling Series

LFA Feuerlilie Series

Messerschmitt/O.B.F. Enzian Series

Rheinmetall-Borsig Rheintochter Series

EMW Wasserfall Series

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-2

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-3

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-4

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-5

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-6

 

[Dilandu]

For "some" reason I kinda doubt that this book would be about "how many ideas Germans stole from others" (which they did often, by the way)...

 

[Justo Miranda]

For "some" reason I kinda doubt that this book would be about "how many ideas Germans stole from others" (which they did often, by the way)...

I think you're wrong, it's a technical book that has no relation to politics, I'm sending you a list of German ideas stolen by the Allies after the war:



When the USSR revealed the MiG-15, during the May 1949 parade, Western analysts noted that it strongly resembled the German Focke-Wulf Ta 183 A-0 jet fighter project.

Many Western books and magazine articles stressed the similarity of both designs and they assumed that the general aerodynamic layout of the MiG was influenced by German designs.

Perhaps the Soviets had continued to develop the Ta 183 after the war, as they did with the Junkers Ju 248, EF 126, EF 127, EF 131, DFS 346 and the Heinkel He 343/Ilyushin Il-22 projects.

Why not?

The USSR was within its rights to use the technology conquered with the sacrifice of its soldiers.

The importance of the German scientific and technological achievements was well understood both in the USSR and in other countries.

After the war ended, the Allied powers raced to seize aeronautic technology in occupied Germany and the aerodynamic configuration of these German projects, proof-of-concept prototypes, weapons, and operational airplanes were used in the first generation of the Cold War jet fighters.



The nose air intake/tubular fuselage/rear swept wings and tail surfaces configuration of the Messerschmitt P.1101 and Focke-Wulf Ta 183 fighters were used in North American F-86 Sabre, MiG-15 Fagot, MiG-17 Fresco, Lavochkin La-15 Fantail, Dassault MD 450 Ouragan, Dassault MD 452 Mystère, Nord 2200, Tank IAE 33 Pulqui II, Fiat G.91 Gina and Fuji T-1.

The delta wing configuration of Lippisch DM-1 and Messerschmitt P.1112/S2 was used in the Convair XF-92, Convair F-102, Nord 1402 Gerfaut, Sud-Est S.E. 212 Durandal, Dassault Mirage I, Avro 707, Boulton Paul P.111, Boulton Paul P.120, Handley Page H.P.115, Fairey Delta 1, Fairey Delta 2, BAC 221 and Short SC.1.

The maximum speed of the first prototypes XF-92 and YF-102 was limited to 0.98 Mach, due a transonic drag much higher than expected, but the problem was solved in December 1954 using the aerodynamic principle named area rule, patented by Junkers on March 1944.

Swept wings with two trailing-edge fins configuration from Arado E.583 and Junkers EF.128 projects was used in the Chance Vought F7U Cutlass naval fighter.

The “bat wing” of the Messerschmitt Me P.1109-01 and Blohm und Voss P.208 projects was used in 1996 in the prototype Boeing Bird of Prey.

The oblique scissors wing of the Messerschmitt Me P.1109-01 and Blohm und Voss P.202 projects were flight tested in 1979 with the NASA Ames AD-1 research airplane.

The forward-swept wing of the German projects Heinkel He 162 B, Blohm und Voss P.209.02, BMW Strahlbomber II, and Focke-Wulf P. 03028, was flight tested with the Grumman X-29 research plane in 1984.

The butterfly tailplane of the Heinkel P.1079A and Messerschmitt P.1110 projects were used in 1951 in the Supermarine Type 508 prototype and in the Fouga CM.170 Magister jet trainer in 1952.

The Versuchsflugel II crescent wing of the Arado Ar 234 V16 project was used in the Handley Page H.P.88 research plane in 1951 and in the Handley Page Victor strategic bomber in 1952.

The tailless configuration of the Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet was flight tested in the research planes de Havilland D.H.108 in 1946, Northrop X-4 in 1948, Payen Katy in 1954 and in the Douglas F4D Skyray naval fighter in 1951.

The double-delta configuration of the Henschel P.130 project was used by SAAB in their J35 Draken jet interceptor in 1955.

The jet/rocket mixed propulsion system of the Messerschmitt prototype Me 262 V074 and the Focke-Wulf Projekt VI Flitzer were used in the French interceptor Dassault Mirage IIIC in 1961 and in the British research airplane Saunders-Roe S.R. 177 in 1947.

The variable-geometry wing of the Messerschmitt P.1102-05 was used in the Bell X-5 and Mirage G prototypes, in the Grumman F-14 Tomcat naval fighter, in the MiG-23 fighter-bomber and in the Panavia Tornado bomber.

The radar rotating antenna of the airborne early warning airplanes Grumman E-2 Hawkeye and the AWACS Boeing E-3 Sentry, was developed in 1944 for the Arado Ar 234 C-3, to track a bomber stream up to distances of 45 km, using a FuG 244 Bremen 0 radar set with a rotating disc above the fuselage.



The heat-seeking missile AIM-9 Sidewinder and the Soviet copy R-13/AA-2 Atoll were based on the infrared homing devices and infrared proximity fuses developed by AEG and Kepka for the German missiles Messerschmitt Enzian, Henschel Hs 117 Schmetterling, EMW Wasserfall and Ruhrstahl-Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen.

The annular wing developed by von Zborowski for the Heinkel Wespe VTOL project, was flight tested in 1958 with the French prototype SNECMA Coléoptère.

The French DEFA and British ADEN 30 mm cannon were developed from the German Mauser MG 213C.

The USAAF 0.60-caliber heavy machine gun was a straight copy of the German Mauser MG151.

The Mighty Mouse air-to-air unguided rockets fired by the all-weather interceptors Lockheed F-94 Starfire, Northrop F-89 Scorpion and North American F-86 D Sabre Dog during the Cold War, were developed from the Rheinmetall R4M Orkan 55 mm rocket, and their automatic firing radar system probably was a development of the German FuG 222 Pauke S fire control radar with Oberon-Elfe predictor system.

The ramjet propulsion of the German projects Lippisch P.13a, Skoda-Kauba SK P.12, Heinkel P.1080, Focke-Wulf Ta 283 and Messerschmitt P.1101L was flight tested by the North American F-51D c/n 44-63528 in 1946, the Lockheed F-80 Trijet in 1948, and the French prototypes Leduc 021 and Sud-Ouest SO 9000 Trident in 1953.

The turboprop configuration of the Focke-Wulf P.0310226-17 project was flight tested in 1953 with the McDonnell XF-88B prototype, and by the Republic XF-84 H Thunderscreech research plane in 1955.

The canard fore planes of the Blohm und Voss P.217 and Messerschmitt P.1110 (Feb 12, 1945) projects were used by the Dassault Mirage Milan in 1969.

Several versions of the Fieseler Fi 103 (V-1) cruise missile were manufactured in USA, as Republic-Ford JB-2 Loon, in France as ARSAERO CT-10 and in the USSR as the Izdeliye 10.

The EMW V-2 ballistic missile was manufactured in the USSR as the R-1 in 1948, in USA as RTV-G-4 Bumper and developed as the PGM Redstone rocket of the NASA Mercury project in 1958.

The Rheinmetall-Borsig Rheintochter surface-to-air missile concept inspired the Soviet SA-2 (1958) and the US Nike Ajax (1954).

The Doblhoff WNF 342 jet propelled rotor concept was used in the Hiller YH-32 Hornet helicopter in 1950, in the XH-26 Jet Jeep helicopter in 1952, in the Fairey Rotodyne compound gyroplane in 1957 and in the Fairey Gyrodyne prototype in 1957.


The SNECMA Atar 101 French turbojet was developed from the BMW 003 axial-flow turbojet.



However, the MiG-15 seems to be a special case. Over the past 72 years respected authors have published numerous works denying the Focke-Wulf heritage of the Soviet fighter and detailing the differences between the two designs.

 

[Dilandu]

I think you're wrong, it's a technical book that has no relation to politics,

Yeah, yeah, you said the same about your "Soviet" book)

, I'm sending you a list of German ideas stolen by the Allies after the war:

Please. This list of nonsence is just plainly laughable. Especially this pearl of wisdom:

The Rheinmetall-Borsig Rheintochter surface-to-air missile concept inspired the Soviet SA-2 (1958) and the US Nike Ajax (1954).

 

[Justo Miranda]

"concept inspired"




It would be quite laughable if it were shown that the designers of SA-2 were inspired by the worst German project.

The R-I showed a lower performance altitude than the Enzian and Schmetterling missiles because of its poor design and short thrust time.

Heereswaffenamt did not consider the R-I for mass production and the project was cancelled in December 1944.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Yeah, yeah, you said the same about your "Soviet" book)

Please. This list of nonsence is just plainly laughable. Especially this pearl of wisdom:

“I think you're wrong, it's a technical book that has no relation to politics”



I think it is impossible for me to write about Russian aviation during the Soviet period without falling into political considerations, it was a time of ideological interventionism that cannot be ignored. The theme of my book "Soviet Fakes" is to enumerate the failures of the aeronautical technology developed in the Soviet Union, and the author's conclusion is that this enormous and futile effort was aimed at aggression against neighboring countries using technology acquired abroad by different means. The result was the deaths of thousands of Russian, Chinese and Spanish pilots and a civil war that nearly killed my father three times and my mother twice before they met in 1951. Perhaps a Brit could have dealt with the subject with more impartiality, but I have plenty of passion and lack the necessary irony.

In my book "Rocket Interceptors 1941-1947" published by Fonthill in June, I have dealt in depth with the successes and failures of Russian designers, but it has not been possible to separate their professional activity from the political interferences that ruined the work of so many engineers, scientists and organizers with a great future: Glushko, Tsander, Cheranovsky, Tukhachevsky, Dushkin, Isaef and even the great Korolev.

 

[Dilandu]

It would be quite laughable if it were shown that the designers of SA-2 were inspired by the worst German project.

One problem - they weren't.

I think it is impossible for me to write about Russian aviation during the Soviet period without falling into political considerations, it was a time of ideological interventionism that cannot be ignored.

Then probably you shouldn't try.

 

[Justo Miranda]

One problem - they weren't.


Then probably you shouldn't try.

Well, I can't answer that because it would close this thread and I need a little publicity to let the world know that I haven't died yet.

As you know, from the trajectory of my publications, I am usually interested in topics that have not been dealt with before by serious authors for prudent reasons: Luft 46, German UFOS, Science Fiction Life Forms...

I'm only interested in the mysteries of science and technology.

I grew up with the news of Sputnik, Laika, Gagarin, Tereshkova, the far side of the Moon, Venera, the space race, the flying saucers, the MiGs and all that was a huge technological mystery that no one knew anything about... how could I not be interested in knowing the truth when I have been able to access some information?

 

[Dilandu]

I'm only interested in the mysteries of science and technology.

Doesn't looks like that. You are fanboying over "german super-duper technology" while dismissing Soviet as "eh, they stole everything for their nefarious purposes".

 

[Justo Miranda]

Doesn't looks like that. You are fanboying over "german super-duper technology" while dismissing Soviet as "eh, they stole everything for their nefarious purposes".

With knowledge comes disappointment, Scott Lowther was right when he said that most Luft-46 projects were only intended to prevent designers from being sent to fight at the Front and tests conducted by the Allies after the war showed that for the most part these were dead ideas. In the Reich too, political interference proved lethal for science and technology: heavy bombers designed as dive bombers, jet fighters converted into bombers, Zerstörer concept... The Germans also stole technology, usually for defensive purposes to save development time: Centimetric radar technology developed from a magnetron found in a downed British aircraft, Schräge Musik tactic copied from British COW interceptors of interwar period, German Bazooka, German Window, suicide tactics copied from the Japanese... and a lot of mystical nonsense without scientific basis.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Doesn't looks like that. You are fanboying over "german super-duper technology" while dismissing Soviet as "eh, they stole everything for their nefarious purposes".

“nefarious purposes”



Strategically speaking, it makes sense that the Soviet leaders would try to protect themselves from the German danger by conquering border territories that would act as a buffer between the two powers, the war and the security of atomic technology and the fear of its consequences changed that mentality. I hope that the stupidity of European leaders does not revive old historical facts.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Available in Amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DKB5WZ1Q?ref_=ast_author_dp&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.VyeGx9KO_Htt5wmFTIv4qQie462pWD1rWOEoFVir0fJE1sLcqjL16yKW77S3BQs4dkkcaHoUVZhqMplxQdD3LlqOX4fiSJV498vwV1XsX9_2aJ8l0g52Q9ZRX0RRg2fewT8pAINY8567_ZYdN8FyCAXVFGiycnQfERyv5ULgr2TL6CbITibytnMw4im-2hsHoevMNrO427SeUo4XckhHgG4j0h-NQZ1L1psA0GTdeLY.Oo_FyhGYHq7HfLnxGSiBfYLB3qiDgKSv1JL9YIMonsE&dib_tag=AUTHOR

 

[gatoraptor]

It appears that the almost universal concept of jetliners putting their engines in nacelles suspended on pylons under the leading edges of the wings was originated in Brunolf Baade's design for the Junkers EF150, which was built later in the Soviet Union as the Samolot 150.

 

[Justo Miranda]

It appears that the almost universal concept of jetliners putting their engines in nacelles suspended on pylons under the leading edges of the wings was originated in Brunolf Baade's design for the Junkers EF150, which was built later in the Soviet Union as the Samolot 150.

Junkers patent

 

[newsdeskdan]

Engines in nacelles suspended on pylons under the leading edges of the wings, you say? The Junkers EFo 11-02 and 11-22 from July 1938 would seem to match those criteria.

 

[newsdeskdan]

The EFo 12 of November 1938 is a bit closer - twin-engine nacelles, suspended on pylons under the leading edges of the wings, but in a tail dragger configuration and with the undercarriage mainwheels attached to the nacelles, which obviously wasn't ideal. In later designs, the mainwheels actually retracted into the nacelles (still not ideal).

 

[Justo Miranda]

Product details​

• ASIN ‏ : ‎ B0DKB5WZ1Q
• Publication date ‏ : ‎ October 18, 2024
• Language ‏ : ‎ English
• File size ‏ : ‎ 105109 KB
• Text-to-Speech ‏ : ‎ Enabled
• Screen Reader ‏ : ‎ Supported
• Enhanced typesetting ‏ : ‎ Enabled
• X-Ray ‏ : ‎ Not Enabled
• Word Wise ‏ : ‎ Enabled
• Print length ‏ : ‎ 337 pages

• Best Sellers Rank: #313,452 in Kindle Store (See Top 100 in Kindle Store)
  • #59 in Conventional Weapons & Warfare History (Kindle Store)
  • #170 in Military Aviation History (Kindle Store)
  • #241 in Conventional Weapons & Warfare History (Books)

 

[BROF]

“nefarious purposes”



Strategically speaking, it makes sense that the Soviet leaders would try to protect themselves from the German danger by conquering border territories that would act as a buffer between the two powers, the war and the security of atomic technology and the fear of its consequences changed that mentality. I hope that the stupidity of European leaders does not revive old historical facts.

In 1939 1940 through his alliance with Hitler, Stalin did exactly the opposite: he took part in the dismemberment of Poland, which was a buffer-state with a strong will to resist the IIIrd Reich, and as a consequence the USSR got a long border with Germany or German-controlled territories and with countries allied to Germany. The Wehrmacht immediately started a massive base- and facility-construction program along the new German-Soviet border, Bauplan Ost. It was the launch pad for Barbarossa. Without Stalin's appetite for territorial gains and restablishing the Russian empire, Barbarossa would not have almost succeded.

 

[Justo Miranda]

In 1939 1940 through his alliance with Hitler, Stalin did exactly the opposite: he took part in the dismemberment of Poland, which was a buffer-state with a strong will to resist the IIIrd Reich, and as a consequence the USSR got a long border with Germany or German-controlled territories and with countries allied to Germany. The Wehrmacht immediately started a massive base- and facility-construction program along the new German-Soviet border, Bauplan Ost. It was the launch pad for Barbarossa. Without Stalin's appetite for territorial gains and restablishing the Russian empire, Barbarossa would not have almost succeded.

I disagree, the Reich needed the oil from Baku, the wheat from Ukraine and space to relocate the populations it disliked, when the French refused to accept Jews and even send them to Madagascar as was the original plan of the Nazis, they were displacing populations to the east.

The attack on the Soviet Union was later sold as an ideological crusade, but in my opinion it was a strategically well-studied and militarily poorly designed and poorly executed movement. It was foolish to waste time in Greece and the Balkans and not provide the invasion army with winter material, enough fuel and reserves to sustain the pace of advance.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Dear staff on line:

It seems that some members of the forum seem more interested in politicizing this thread than in giving their opinion on my book with topics that have no relation to its content.

 

[pathology_doc]

Ikaria MG FF (20-mm)

Mauser MG 151 Series (15/20-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig MK 103 (30-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig MK 108 (30-mm)

Mauser MG 81 (7.92-mm)

Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 131 (13-mm)

These ones are far from experimental, more like "widely in service", but if there's decent information on their performance and background then it's the book I've been looking for... assuming that it is in English!!!

Seems the only other book I can find on WW2 Luftwaffe aircraft weapons is in German, which I cannot read at all. If you could recommend me a good one in English, which also includes info on the MG "teen" series guns (MG15, MG17) and/or Luftwaffe gun mounts, I would be very grateful!!

 

[Justo Miranda]

These ones are far from experimental, more like "widely in service", but if there's decent information on their performance and background then it's the book I've been looking for... assuming that it is in English!!!

Seems the only other book I can find on WW2 Luftwaffe aircraft weapons is in German, which I cannot read at all. If you could recommend me a good one in English, which also includes info on the MG "teen" series guns (MG15, MG17) and/or Luftwaffe gun mounts, I would be very grateful!!

Hi

 

[pathology_doc]

Hi

Justo, I thank you.

My wallet does not.

If you'll excuse me, I have to go find it. It may be hiding behind the sofa with the cat.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Justo, I thank you.

My wallet does not.

If you'll excuse me, I have to go find it. It may be hiding behind the sofa with the cat.

In my country we say: "I can't afford these drinks because I have left my wallet on top of the piano".

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I think you're wrong, it's a technical book that has no relation to politics, I'm sending you a list of German ideas stolen by the Allies after the war:


The heat-seeking missile AIM-9 Sidewinder and the Soviet copy R-13/AA-2 Atoll were based on the infrared homing devices and infrared proximity fuses developed by AEG and Kepka for the German missiles Messerschmitt Enzian, Henschel Hs 117 Schmetterling, EMW Wasserfall and Ruhrstahl-Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen.

Sidewinder had NOTHING to do with any German WW 2 missile technology. NOTHING. It was wholly a US design. The Infrared seeker and its mode of operation was the invention of William McClain at NOTS China Lake. The infrared technology was US based as well. The missile itself was based on extant US unguided rockets in service. Stabilization of the missile in flight used rollerons that were not even invented during WW 2. McClain worked on this project off the books. That is, it wasn't on a government contract, but his own idea done in his spare time.
The Soviet R-13 was a copy of a captured Sidewinder. The Russians knew a good thing when they saw it. Their earlier K-5 (AA-1 Alkali) didn't rely on German technology either.

Several versions of the Fieseler Fi 103 (V-1) cruise missile were manufactured in USA, as Republic-Ford JB-2 Loon, in France as ARSAERO CT-10 and in the USSR as the Izdeliye 10.

Yes, the JB-2 / Loon was a close copy of the German V-1. The US did invent a completely different ground launching system for it, however.

The EMW V-2 ballistic missile was manufactured in the USSR as the R-1 in 1948, in USA as RTV-G-4 Bumper and developed as the PGM Redstone rocket of the NASA Mercury project in 1958.

The V-2 was simply a cheap and available means to an end for the US. Virtually all US launched V-2 had most of the guidance system replaced by US designed and manufactured components because the German ones were found to be unreliable and inferior. It wasn't the basis for most postwar US ballistic missile design and development.

The Rheinmetall-Borsig Rheintochter surface-to-air missile concept inspired the Soviet SA-2 (1958) and the US Nike Ajax (1954).

NOTHING the Germans did with surface-to-air technology was applied to ANY US SAM program. Nike and the Navy's Project Bumblebee started before the war ended. In the case of Bumblebee--to include Little Joe and Lark--the USN was already ahead of Germany in 1945 in terms of SAM development. The early postwar MX 606 GAPA was wholly a Boeing design.
Nike owed NOTHING to anything the Germans did in missiles in WW 2. In fact, by mid-1945 the US was well ahead of Germany in developing solid rocket fuels and had their own liquid fuel engines available for use.
In terms of guidance systems, the US was streets ahead of the Germans. They already had automatic tracking millimeter wave radars like the SCR 584 and 525, they had better analog and electro-analog computers, and with Nike, Bell Telephone / Western Electric had perfected a monopulse radar system to use with it.

I'm not denigrating what the Germans did in missile development here, but I won't credit them with what they didn't contribute to in other nations. US SAM and AAM programs are best described of being close to entirely devoid of German engineering input in terms of wartime German research.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sidewinder had NOTHING to do with any German WW 2 missile technology. NOTHING. It was wholly a US design. The Infrared seeker and its mode of operation was the invention of William McClain at NOTS China Lake. The infrared technology was US based as well. The missile itself was based on extant US unguided rockets in service. Stabilization of the missile in flight used rollerons that were not even invented during WW 2. McClain worked on this project off the books. That is, it wasn't on a government contract, but his own idea done in his spare time.
The Soviet R-13 was a copy of a captured Sidewinder. The Russians knew a good thing when they saw it. Their earlier K-5 (AA-1 Alkali) didn't rely on German technology either.


Yes, the JB-2 / Loon was a close copy of the German V-1. The US did invent a completely different ground launching system for it, however.


The V-2 was simply a cheap and available means to an end for the US. Virtually all US launched V-2 had most of the guidance system replaced by US designed and manufactured components because the German ones were found to be unreliable and inferior. It wasn't the basis for most postwar US ballistic missile design and development.


NOTHING the Germans did with surface-to-air technology was applied to ANY US SAM program. Nike and the Navy's Project Bumblebee started before the war ended. In the case of Bumblebee--to include Little Joe and Lark--the USN was already ahead of Germany in 1945 in terms of SAM development. The early postwar MX 606 GAPA was wholly a Boeing design.
Nike owed NOTHING to anything the Germans did in missiles in WW 2. In fact, by mid-1945 the US was well ahead of Germany in developing solid rocket fuels and had their own liquid fuel engines available for use.
In terms of guidance systems, the US was streets ahead of the Germans. They already had automatic tracking millimeter wave radars like the SCR 584 and 525, they had better analog and electro-analog computers, and with Nike, Bell Telephone / Western Electric had perfected a monopulse radar system to use with it.

I'm not denigrating what the Germans did in missile development here, but I won't credit them with what they didn't contribute to in other nations. US SAM and AAM programs are best described of being close to entirely devoid of German engineering input in terms of wartime German research.

During the first year of the WWII a try was made to improve the detection capabilities of night fighters with the help of searchlights installed onboard the aircraft.



Italians used a night version of the Fiat CR-42 with spotlights, in gondolas under the wings, and prolonged engine exhaust. The system was inefficient due to the limited power of the searchlights.



In 1942 there were ten British ‘Turbinlite’ operational squadrons integrated by Douglas Havoc bombers with a powerful searchlight installed in the nose. Guided by radar until the intruder proximity, they lighted up by surprise, giving the Hurricane Mk.II, operating nearby, the opportunity to visually locate it. The system had a weakness in the difficulty to coordinate the attacks in darkness, being left aside by mid 1943, as in practice the light made them also easy targets for German gunners.



To overcome that shortfall the Luftwaffe started using infra-red searchlights with a diameter of 30 cm installed under the nose of some Bf 110 D-3 and E-1. The radiation reflected on the target was made visible for the human eye through and IR telescope named ‘Q-Rohr’ installed in front of the pilot.



The system was developed by Allgemeine Electrizitaetsgesellschaft in Berlin and Zeiss in Jena, under the name ‘Spanner Anlage I’ and entered into service in 1941 with some Messerschmitt of the 4./NJG1 squadron and ten Dornier 17 Z-7 and Z-10 of the I./NJG2. The latest were equipped with a more powerful searchlight with a diameter of 60 cm, installed in the nose cone. Later on the system was experimentally installed in the Do 215 B-5 of the 4./NJG1. In all cases ‘Spanner I’ proved to be inadequate, being unable to identify friend of foe and with a range of only 200 m.



In February 1942 a Do 217 E-2 was modified installing a FuG 202 radar with a minimum detection range of 200 m and an IR active seeker ‘Spanner III’ for short distances. It was an improved version with a bigger scope and searchlight with a diameter of 60 cm, manufactured by AEG. It was useful just for an approximation among clouds as in most cases the target was visible at 200 m without any electronic help.



The ‘Spanner II’ was an IR passive device developed by AEG-Zeiss for its use in single engine fighters, detecting only IR-emitting targets, such as exhaust flames. It was tested on an Fw 190 A on 10 December 1941 with poor results



The development of the IR devices was difficult and slow. Until 1945 there were no practical results, when the Zeiss FuG 280 `Kiel Z` appeared. It was a passive seeker, with 4,000 m range and 25 cm diameter scanning mirror with 20º side to side forward view. The indications are presented on a cathode ray tube. It was tested on the Ju 88 G-6 (3C + AB) of the I./NJG4 on 12 March 1945, too late to be useful.



The main shortfall of the first ‘Spanner’ was the reduced field of view of the telescope. The image also suffered interferences from the moon, the stars, the flares and the explosions of flak.



In 1944 the Luftwaffe started using ‘Verbandsflug’ tactics with a great number of night fighters operating in the same sector. To avoid confusions, the airplanes identify themselves using the infra-red lamp termed ‘Gaensebrust’.



The British bombers used infra-red navigation lights since 1944. To locate them, the Germans developed the IR seeker named ‘Falter’ with just 15º of view field and difficult to use.



Another system termed ‘Mücke’ was being tested at the end of the war in Europe. Although the Allies preferred to use their advanced centimetric radars, the Luftwaffe ordered the firms AEG and Siemens to develop the airborne warning devices ‘Froschauge’ and ‘Katze’ - the latest based on the ‘Spanner II’ - and an IR jamming known as ‘Wärmebold’ that were never used in combat.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sidewinder had NOTHING to do with any German WW 2 missile technology. NOTHING. It was wholly a US design. The Infrared seeker and its mode of operation was the invention of William McClain at NOTS China Lake. The infrared technology was US based as well. The missile itself was based on extant US unguided rockets in service. Stabilization of the missile in flight used rollerons that were not even invented during WW 2. McClain worked on this project off the books. That is, it wasn't on a government contract, but his own idea done in his spare time.
The Soviet R-13 was a copy of a captured Sidewinder. The Russians knew a good thing when they saw it. Their earlier K-5 (AA-1 Alkali) didn't rely on German technology either.


Yes, the JB-2 / Loon was a close copy of the German V-1. The US did invent a completely different ground launching system for it, however.


The V-2 was simply a cheap and available means to an end for the US. Virtually all US launched V-2 had most of the guidance system replaced by US designed and manufactured components because the German ones were found to be unreliable and inferior. It wasn't the basis for most postwar US ballistic missile design and development.


NOTHING the Germans did with surface-to-air technology was applied to ANY US SAM program. Nike and the Navy's Project Bumblebee started before the war ended. In the case of Bumblebee--to include Little Joe and Lark--the USN was already ahead of Germany in 1945 in terms of SAM development. The early postwar MX 606 GAPA was wholly a Boeing design.
Nike owed NOTHING to anything the Germans did in missiles in WW 2. In fact, by mid-1945 the US was well ahead of Germany in developing solid rocket fuels and had their own liquid fuel engines available for use.
In terms of guidance systems, the US was streets ahead of the Germans. They already had automatic tracking millimeter wave radars like the SCR 584 and 525, they had better analog and electro-analog computers, and with Nike, Bell Telephone / Western Electric had perfected a monopulse radar system to use with it.

I'm not denigrating what the Germans did in missile development here, but I won't credit them with what they didn't contribute to in other nations. US SAM and AAM programs are best described of being close to entirely devoid of German engineering input in terms of wartime German research.

. Nor was it possible to use the catapult 'Madelung KL 12', designed for launching unmanned missiles because its length was 42 m and its terminal speed of 105 mps would make the pilot lose consciousness.



The solution proposed by the Dipl. Ing. Willy Fiedler consisted of a folding ramp, only 10 m. length, which was originally designed to launch the Natter. With the use of two RATO rockets of the Schmidding 109-533 type a softer thrust would be obtained until reaching the starting speed of the pulsejet. After the war, Willy Fiedler worked designing several U.S. Navy submarine launch systems for the 'Loon' and 'Regulus' missiles.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sidewinder had NOTHING to do with any German WW 2 missile technology. NOTHING. It was wholly a US design. The Infrared seeker and its mode of operation was the invention of William McClain at NOTS China Lake. The infrared technology was US based as well. The missile itself was based on extant US unguided rockets in service. Stabilization of the missile in flight used rollerons that were not even invented during WW 2. McClain worked on this project off the books. That is, it wasn't on a government contract, but his own idea done in his spare time.
The Soviet R-13 was a copy of a captured Sidewinder. The Russians knew a good thing when they saw it. Their earlier K-5 (AA-1 Alkali) didn't rely on German technology either.


Yes, the JB-2 / Loon was a close copy of the German V-1. The US did invent a completely different ground launching system for it, however.


The V-2 was simply a cheap and available means to an end for the US. Virtually all US launched V-2 had most of the guidance system replaced by US designed and manufactured components because the German ones were found to be unreliable and inferior. It wasn't the basis for most postwar US ballistic missile design and development.


NOTHING the Germans did with surface-to-air technology was applied to ANY US SAM program. Nike and the Navy's Project Bumblebee started before the war ended. In the case of Bumblebee--to include Little Joe and Lark--the USN was already ahead of Germany in 1945 in terms of SAM development. The early postwar MX 606 GAPA was wholly a Boeing design.
Nike owed NOTHING to anything the Germans did in missiles in WW 2. In fact, by mid-1945 the US was well ahead of Germany in developing solid rocket fuels and had their own liquid fuel engines available for use.
In terms of guidance systems, the US was streets ahead of the Germans. They already had automatic tracking millimeter wave radars like the SCR 584 and 525, they had better analog and electro-analog computers, and with Nike, Bell Telephone / Western Electric had perfected a monopulse radar system to use with it.

I'm not denigrating what the Germans did in missile development here, but I won't credit them with what they didn't contribute to in other nations. US SAM and AAM programs are best described of being close to entirely devoid of German engineering input in terms of wartime German research.

The EMW V-2 ballistic missile was manufactured in the USSR as the R-1 in 1948, in USA as RTV-G-4 Bumper and developed as the PGM Redstone rocket of the NASA Mercury project in 1958.

The V-2 was simply a cheap and available means to an end for the US. Virtually all US launched V-2 had most of the guidance system replaced by US designed and manufactured components because the German ones were found to be unreliable and inferior. It wasn't the basis for most postwar US ballistic missile design and development.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sidewinder had NOTHING to do with any German WW 2 missile technology. NOTHING. It was wholly a US design. The Infrared seeker and its mode of operation was the invention of William McClain at NOTS China Lake. The infrared technology was US based as well. The missile itself was based on extant US unguided rockets in service. Stabilization of the missile in flight used rollerons that were not even invented during WW 2. McClain worked on this project off the books. That is, it wasn't on a government contract, but his own idea done in his spare time.
The Soviet R-13 was a copy of a captured Sidewinder. The Russians knew a good thing when they saw it. Their earlier K-5 (AA-1 Alkali) didn't rely on German technology either.


Yes, the JB-2 / Loon was a close copy of the German V-1. The US did invent a completely different ground launching system for it, however.


The V-2 was simply a cheap and available means to an end for the US. Virtually all US launched V-2 had most of the guidance system replaced by US designed and manufactured components because the German ones were found to be unreliable and inferior. It wasn't the basis for most postwar US ballistic missile design and development.


NOTHING the Germans did with surface-to-air technology was applied to ANY US SAM program. Nike and the Navy's Project Bumblebee started before the war ended. In the case of Bumblebee--to include Little Joe and Lark--the USN was already ahead of Germany in 1945 in terms of SAM development. The early postwar MX 606 GAPA was wholly a Boeing design.
Nike owed NOTHING to anything the Germans did in missiles in WW 2. In fact, by mid-1945 the US was well ahead of Germany in developing solid rocket fuels and had their own liquid fuel engines available for use.
In terms of guidance systems, the US was streets ahead of the Germans. They already had automatic tracking millimeter wave radars like the SCR 584 and 525, they had better analog and electro-analog computers, and with Nike, Bell Telephone / Western Electric had perfected a monopulse radar system to use with it.

I'm not denigrating what the Germans did in missile development here, but I won't credit them with what they didn't contribute to in other nations. US SAM and AAM programs are best described of being close to entirely devoid of German engineering input in terms of wartime German research.

The Rheinmetall-Borsig Rheintochter surface-to-air missile concept inspired the Soviet SA-2 (1958) and the US Nike Ajax (1954).
CONCEPT INSPIRED

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The Rheinmetall-Borsig Rheintochter surface-to-air missile concept inspired the Soviet SA-2 (1958) and the US Nike Ajax (1954).
CONCEPT INSPIRED

No, it didn't. The SA-2 was originally developed in-house by KB-1 as the 32B in Section 32 headed by D L Tomashevich. The booster was designed by I I Kartukov. 40 32B's were manufactured and proved better than the V-300 (S-25 / Berkut aka ZUR 205 of Lavochkin), it wasn't accepted as the head project planners for Berkut wanted to stay conservative in design and Lavochkin's ZUR 205 was already production ready.

Lavochkin's Deputy Designer, Alexander Raspletin, assisted by P D Gurshin at KB-1 in OKB-2 were the designers of the S-75 Diva (SA-2). That project started in 1953. Rheintochter was looked at by SKB-5 at NII 88 under Chief Designer Semyon Yevelyevich Rashkov and abandoned as a project by 1950. KB-1 didn't bother with even looking at his research.

So, the S-75 Diva was a wholly Soviet / Russian project but could trace some of its liquid fuel sustainer engine back to the German Wasserfall work done at NII 88. But that is minimal as the Russians had made so many changes and improvements as to make the German original irrelevant. There were additional spin offs of the 32B like the V-1000 and DAL 1 and 2, for example.

With Nike I (Ajax), NOTHING was inspired by Rheintochter regarding it. The basic idea for Nike was set out in a memorandum by 1st LT. Jacob W. Schaefer, a Bell Labs Employee who was serving in the Army in the Ordinance Department submitted on 17 August 1944.
Schaefer recommended a "controlled antiaircraft rocket" to protect cities. He outlined how this would work.

RCA and Bell Labs were asked to provide a bid on such a system in February 1945, a month before Germany surrendered. RCA declined, and Bell's proposal was accepted.

Bell Labs laid out the basic specifics of the system that became Nike based on that on 14 May 1945, about 1 month after the war in Europe ended. At that point, nothing was known about German SAM systems in the US. The Bell specifics were:

The missile would use a liquid fuel engine of proven design (this became the Aerojets 21AL-2600 a totally US design)

Development of a radar guidance system of improved accuracy based on current systems. The SCR 584 and 525 were the basis for that using newly developed monopulse technology.

Command guidance with the majority of the system ground based to keep the cost per missile to a minimum.

Use of a solid fuel booster stage to accelerate the missile to supersonic speed.

Douglas Aircraft was chosen to design the missile based on their experience with guided weapons for the US Navy like Gargoyle and their proximity to the JPL in Pasadena.

A subsonic missile system like Rheintochter was, in the view of the US military an already obsolescent, if not obsolete, technology. Aside from that, the engine technology it used, particularly the solid fuels, were already so outdated by US standards there would have been zero reason to copy any of it. GALCIT 53 and 61 were a decade ahead of German solid fuel technology still stuck on using nitrocellulose derivatives. Thiokol's rubber-sulphate based fuels were even ahead of the GALCIT ones.

The only US project related to surface-to-air missile development that used any German derived technology was with General Electric and Project Hermes that briefly explored using a heavily modified version of Wasserfall with a GE developed engine and guidance system for that purpose. A total of 6 launches were made before that portion of Hermes was dropped because Bell's Nike system was advancing well towards operational use.

Let me add, I do like your drawings. I'd love to use some of them in my upcoming book on surface-to-air missile development to 1955.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Let me add, I do like your drawings. I'd love to use some of them in my upcoming book on surface-to-air missile development to 1955.

OK