New Book Dassault Prototype

K

Krishna_j

I really should change my personal text
Senior Member
Joined
23 August 2013
Messages
95
Reaction score
2
Bill Rose had covered the Mirage III V protoype in his book on vertical fighter aircraft - Midland 2013

However the same is being covered in more detail by Histoire Collections


Prototypes Dassault à décollage vertical Broché – Feb 2016
de Hervé Beaumont

http://www.amazon.fr/Prototypes-Dassault-%C3%A0-d%C3%A9collage-vertical/dp/2352504287/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449306367&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=harve+beaumont
 
Thanks for this.

I have just purchased the three French FANA DeL'Aviation mags Oct-Dec 1997 recmmended on another thread. They cover the subject very well, but the book should be good as well.
 
can u share the thread - what do those issues cover ?
 
The three Fana magazines of September, October and November 1997 cover the Balzac V subsonic VTOL and the two Mirage III-V prototypes.
 
Krishna_j said:
...

Prototypes Dassault à décollage vertical Broché – Feb 2016
de Hervé Beaumont

http://www.amazon.fr/Prototypes-Dassault-%C3%A0-d%C3%A9collage-vertical/dp/2352504287/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449306367&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=harve+beaumont
Click to expand...

Has anyone bought & read the mentioned book to give us a short review, please?
 
Not released yet I think - meaning the book is also in prototype stage :'(
 
On a french website two forumers bought the book. They liked it.

http://www.histoireetcollections.com/fr/les-materiels-de-l-armee-de-l-air/3980-his0656-les-prototypes-dassault-a-decollage-vertical-9782352504283.html

But since this, the editor Histoire & Collections became insolvent (12.04.2016).

http://www.societe.com/societe/histoire-et-collections-330336041.html

It can work at least to the 12.06.2016. But the future is unknown. It is not sure that another editor will buy Histoire & Collection.

If you want the book it could be urgent to act quickly...
 
I desperately searched for that book in over 10 different outlets when I heard that the publisher was going out of business, but couldn't find it anywhere, unfortunately...
 
It's now listed on the U.S. Amazon website with a 29 September release date:

http://www.amazon.com/Prototypes-Dassault-Decollage-Vertical-Francaise/dp/2352504287
 
If H & C truly goes belly-up, they have only themselves to blame. They have continually failed to realize that on a world-wide basis, they could sell far more English-language books than French-language, and yet they stubbornly refused to do English-language editions of books which would have appeal to the English-speaking world.

Consider their series on plastic-kit manufacturers, most of which were also issued in English. They had a very nice book on the Heller 1/72 aircraft kits that I appealed to them several times to reissue in English, but they would not listen. And not only to me; I also asked the author, J.-C. Carbonel (who often posts on this forum) to do the same, and they wouldn't even listen to him!

They also did an excellent two-volume encyclopedia on modern Main Battle Tanks of the world, which they initially announced an English-language edition of, and then refused to follow through. And this was in spite of the fact that only one of the dozen-or-so tanks described in detail was French!

I hope that if they come out of bankruptcy, the owners realize that they need to publish more of their books in English in order to make the profits that they should.
 
gatoraptor said:
If H & C truly goes belly-up, they have only themselves to blame. They have continually failed to realize that on a world-wide basis, they could sell far more English-language books than French-language, and yet they stubbornly refused to do English-language editions of books which would have appeal to the English-speaking world.

Consider their series on plastic-kit manufacturers, most of which were also issued in English. They had a very nice book on the Heller 1/72 aircraft kits that I appealed to them several times to reissue in English, but they would not listen. And not only to me; I also asked the author, J.-C. Carbonel (who often posts on this forum) to do the same, and they wouldn't even listen to him!

They also did an excellent two-volume encyclopedia on modern Main Battle Tanks of the world, which they initially announced an English-language edition of, and then refused to follow through. And this was in spite of the fact that only one of the dozen-or-so tanks described in detail was French!

I hope that if they come out of bankruptcy, the owners realize that they need to publish more of their books in English in order to make the profits that they should.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. Many people do not realize the world has changed, especially the world of publishing.
You can't continue to apply local solutions that worked 30 years ago and not think global, especially in matters such as these.
H & C did have a few titles in English or with English in it, I recall, but it's true that it still has to be integrated in their mentality...
 
Pity to hear this - many of their titles in english were really good - Mig 21 colour profiles , 2 Part F-16 works , Mirage III etc - was looking forward to the Rafale book as well
 
gatoraptor said:
If H & C truly goes belly-up, they have only themselves to blame. They have continually failed to realize that on a world-wide basis, they could sell far more English-language books than French-language, and yet they stubbornly refused to do English-language editions of books which would have appeal to the English-speaking world.

Consider their series on plastic-kit manufacturers, most of which were also issued in English. They had a very nice book on the Heller 1/72 aircraft kits that I appealed to them several times to reissue in English, but they would not listen. And not only to me; I also asked the author, J.-C. Carbonel (who often posts on this forum) to do the same, and they wouldn't even listen to him!

They also did an excellent two-volume encyclopedia on modern Main Battle Tanks of the world, which they initially announced an English-language edition of, and then refused to follow through. And this was in spite of the fact that only one of the dozen-or-so tanks described in detail was French!

I hope that if they come out of bankruptcy, the owners realize that they need to publish more of their books in English in order to make the profits that they should.
Click to expand...

While I agree they could have profitably sold english-language editions of many of their titles, they were under no obligation to do so, and they may have felt they were serving French-speaking people with their work. It's a bit anglocentric to demand non-English-speaking countries produce works in English due to our inability to speak their languages.

You could always learn French.... I can read well enough from a brief schooling in French (Ages 11-16) to understand aircraft books enough to get by.
 
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
While I agree they could have profitably sold english-language editions of many of their titles, they were under no obligation to do so, and they may have felt they were serving French-speaking people with their work. It's a bit anglocentric to demand non-English-speaking countries produce works in English due to our inability to speak their languages.
Click to expand...

Ha!! Now I understand, PaulMM! The axehole that sent me the anonymous e-mail earlier tonight... It was about this thread! Because the Frenchman that I am DARED to say a French publisher ought to have aimed at a more international market!!

Well, excuse me, Mister... I'm entitled to my own views. The fact that I'm French puts me under no obligation to systematically praise French publishers. If they do good work, yes, of course! But I have never been a brainless flag-waver and I'm not about to stop at half a century of age... I truly believe we have some fine aviation writers over here, and others that are slightly overrated... but that is true of every country. Not admitting it because they are fellow countrymen would be plain stupid.

As it happens, however, I was NOT criticizing anyone! Not an author, not even a publisher... just a general attitude that is prevalent in many French circles (publishers, writers, teachers, media people and so forth) although it's never truly phrased out: "The French language is soooo beautiful, sooo perfect, the language of the philosophers, the thinkers, the revolutionaries, the classic writers... why stoop down and try to communicate with another idiom? Quite a paradox in fact when you consider that a majority of the music people listen to over here is in English... and that most job applicants have the cheek to define themselves as "bilingual" in their CVs... quite a bit of a joke if you consider the ridiculous level of English most French graduates...

Now THAT was French-bashing, Mr. Coward-hiding-behind-a-fake-SPF-admin-identity!! And from a Frenchman, no less! Am I a traitor? Will you report me? Glad the guillotine days are over!!

Anyway, I'll stick to my tune: A French language publication can have hopes of reaching only a very limited audience. Even East European publishers have understood for ages the necessity of adding small summaries in English for their articles. Some French publishers have made efforts too, I'm not disputing that.
 
I, too, have found that I can read books in French with reasonable success based on my distant school days, with Google Translate helping along the way. To a lesser extent German and Italian too, but it is an effort. There is little doubt that some French books would find a wider audience if an English translation was available but it has to be remembered that sales figures for the majority of aviation books are quite low. If the publishers feel the effort of translation and having to revise the layout does not make economic sense the so it goes.
 
Schneiderman said:
it has to be remembered that sales figures for the majority of aviation books are quite low
Click to expand...

And that is true for much of the specialized press, I might add. These are strange times we're living...
 
After a small digression, who has learned which foreign language at school ;), back to the topic, please.

Said in summary: The book is published, but because of bankruptcy the stored books cannot be sold? Only at amazon.fr the book is offered from 54 € up, even though the normal price is 20 € .

I would be grateful if someone could help me to buy the publication (please no amazon links).

Thanks.
 
boxkite said:
After a small digression, who has learned which foreign language at school ;), back to the topic, please.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's quite what it was all about...

boxkite said:
I would be grateful if someone could help me to buy the publication (please no amazon links).
Click to expand...

Believe me, if I'd been able to find copies of it anywhere, I'd already have said so here, knowing others might be interested. But despite my repeated efforts I've seen none.
 
Me too please (though I might try & wait until Aéropuces in October)......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 
I'm sure (and full of hope) as soon as one of us detect a source for buying the eagerly anticipated book on Dassault's VTOL aircraft, he will post an alarm call here in the topic ;) .

Thanks for keeping your eyes open.
 
Saw the book chez : www .decitre.fr/livres/les-prototypes-experimentaux-dassault - with an other cover..
Strange a bit..
 
Here's the correct link:
http://www.decitre.fr/livres/les-prototypes-experimentaux-dassault-9782352504283.html
 
Histoires & Collections had a habit of announcing books with pre-publication cover designs......
 
Found on a french website :


Sophia Communication annonce avoir obtenu, le 5 juillet 2016, la reprise des actifs et du fonds de commerce d’Histoire & Collections auprès du Tribunal de Commerce de Paris.
Baptisée Sophia Histoire & Collections, cette nouvelle structure reprend la majeure partie de l’équipe rédactionnelle d’H&C pour constituer un ensemble (Livres et Magazines) avec Technip & Ophrys Éditions (Éditeur de livres), propriété de Babylone Groupe.
Les parutions des magazines d’Histoire & Collections se feront progressivement tout au long de l’été en même temps que seront servis les abonnements existants. L’activité commerciale redémarre dès cette semaine avec la réouverture du site marchand et la reprise des livraisons. L’édition de livres est maintenue et les premières nouveautés seront disponibles dès la rentrée.

Nous remercions nos abonnés, clients et fidèles lecteurs de leur confiance, patience et soutien dans les moments difficiles que notre société vient de traverser.
Merci à vous.

Histoire & Collections
Click to expand...

http://www.aerostories.org/~aerobiblio/index.php

Histoires & Collections works again with a new owner and the sale of books too.

I guess that the book about the Dassault VTOL will be available again soon.
 
Congratulations ;D

Please if you got already this one : https://www.amazon.fr/monor%C3%A9acteurs-Dassault-aile-delta-Mirage/dp/2912749107/ref=pd_sbs_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZVQ0WYQMD3YT22RDJPKM

Can you said if there are better news about the Mirage III VTOL dérivatives (Balzac, Mirage IIIV-01, Mirage IIIV-02, dérivative projects of the Mirage IIIV) and the Mirage III T, in the book of Histoire & Collections ?

Thanks in advance.
 
I don't have the other Mirage book mentioned so I can't compare.

Moderators, to what extent is it acceptable to post limited extracts and illustrations from this book given that it was never published/released from the warehouse? I received my copy from the Author (with a handwritten dedication inside) post-Aéropuces via my former business partner on 11th November 2016......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 
Caravellarella said:
I don't have the other Mirage book mentioned so I can't compare.

Moderators, to what extent is it acceptable to post limited extracts and illustrations from this book given that it was never published/released from the warehouse? I received my copy from the Author (with a handwritten dedication inside) post-Aéropuces via my former business partner on 11th November 2016......

Terry (Caravellarella)
Click to expand...

I'm not a moderator but I do have some legal training. I would say it is not acceptable to run any of it at this time. In its present unpublished form it likely represents a confidential company asset. There would be no public interest defence in 'leaking' it. And beyond this, there will be contracts involved to which we are not party. I would suggest that it's simply not worth the risk.
Eventually the issue will be resolved one way or another and it will become clear whether the books are to be released or not. If they are released you can publish limited extracts for review purposes. If not, it may be possible for the author to allow publication of some of the images anyway, providing they are not presented as part of designed up pages to which someone holds the rights, and providing that the rights holder of the images themselves is okay with it
 
Yes, I work in publishing & I negotiate publishing contracts for a living; however, others post published material here with scant regard for © & intellectual property. What do the moderators feel about an extract for the purposes of review & criticism. I cannot apply to the publishers for permission as they are in receivership. Both the Author and the Illustrator have obviously granted © to the Publishers (fools) as the copyright notice is in the name of the Publishers; can you see my point?

Terry (Caravellarella)
 
Am I the only member of this forum who has been able to obtain a copy of the book? :eek:

Terry (Caravellarella)
 
Maybe in some months. I am not sure to buy it, because, as I said before, I have already interesting (and maybe more complete) pages about these planes in another book.
 
Caravellarella said:
Yes, I work in publishing & I negotiate publishing contracts for a living; however, others post published material here with scant regard for © & intellectual property. What do the moderators feel about an extract for the purposes of review & criticism. I cannot apply to the publishers for permission as they are in receivership. Both the Author and the Illustrator have obviously granted © to the Publishers (fools) as the copyright notice is in the name of the Publishers; can you see my point?

Terry (Caravellarella)
Click to expand...

I also work in publishing and routinely negotiate contracts as part of my day job. Would you, Terry, be happy to join the ranks of those who post published material here with scant regard for © & intellectual property? The fact that you are even asking the question suggests to me that you would not. You could argue that, with the company's assets in disarray, there would be no-one with sufficient authority over those assets (protecting intellectual property rights doesn't really fall into the remit of a receiver) to successfully launch a legal challenge to the publication of extracts on a web forum, which could easily be taken down in the event of such a challenge. Would Paul MM be happy doing that/explaining that to the lawyers of whoever ultimately gains control over the material when they realise that their valuable product was subject to 'leaks' before they even got their hands on it?
It's frustrating, but until the book is actually made available to the public or at least has a set date for release I don't think you could reasonably claim that you had licence to review it. If the publisher had sent you the book for review purposes, with a press release, that'd be fine. But you've received the book via 'back channels', which makes you privvy to confidential information.
The fact that the publisher is in receivership is good news, in a way, because it means that the legal process of selling off/redistributing its assets has begun. I would imagine that whoever gets hold of the book would want to realise its value sooner rather than later - and get it distrubuted for retail so they can earn their money back. Why not just wait until that happens? Or you could contact the receiver, whoever they are, and see if they will tell you what they intend to do with that particular asset...
 
i think there is no harm in publishing a review of the book or a table of contents as many of us are curious incl those who tried to buy this book for many months (incl my visits to Paris book shops this year ) -

there is nothing illegal in that - nor is there any law stipulating that unless you receive a book from the publishers - only then it can be reviewed. A clear case of making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
Krishna_j said:
i think there is no harm in publishing a review of the book or a table of contents as many of us are curious incl those who tried to buy this book for many months (incl my visits to Paris book shops this year ) -

there is nothing illegal in that - nor is there any law stipulating that unless you receive a book from the publishers - only then it can be reviewed. A clear case of making a mountain out of a molehill.
Click to expand...

Sure. Like I said, the assets are in disarray and there's no-one in a position to protect them... at the moment. Of course, it's also possible that the legal position of the book has already changed. The asset might now have a new owner who's happy for extracts to be printed online. Why not just check whether that is the case? Presumably it'd be as simple as a phonecall to the Tribunal de Commerce to ask what the status of the dispute over the publishing company is.
 
For what it's worth, Amazon (US) says the book will be released on 2 April 2017. I hope that is not someone's wishful thinking.
 
i heard from a source it will bbe available in France in another 10 days or so - so fingers crossed
 
I bought it as soon as it appeared as I was well aware of the trouble in which was H&C. And I think it was a good move as I have not seen it again (and then I had to get it from the shop Rue de Rennes which is not specialized in aviation but in cars because I did not see it in the Maison du Livre d'Aviation

JCC
 
So what's the story with this book? My order with Amazon was cancelled, and now it appears that no copies are available, anywhere. The people now running H&C don't seem to be doing too well.
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom