New armored train

[KonTim]

Let's suppose that some wants to create a armored train similar to those of WWI and WWII.How that could be.It's armament,crew,support units?

I can imagine that except of guns the armored train would be armed by missiles systems.

 

[Avimimus]

Well the question is its purpose... defence against partisans? Aircraft? Or is it a mobile artillery installation? There were different types of armoured train...

 

[KonTim]

Participation in a conventional warfare environment-not the anti-guerilla warfare excluded.Maybe it could be armed by guns,howitzers,V/SHORADS and SHORADS systems,mortars,automatic cannons and HMG.
Also anti-tank missiles like AGM-114.I just haven't see a single drawing.

 

[starviking]

How does an armored train participate in conventional warfare these days? Railway tracks are far down from their peak, and transport on fixed routes would seem to be easy kills in this era of precison munitions. I could see a role in countering attacks on railways themselves, perhaps if some opposition to Russia sprung up along part of the Trans-Siberian Express route. That's about it.

 

[KonTim]

Basically.as a Greek,i had my own idea about what an armored train could do in a possible Greek-Turkish conflict.From escort to railway convoys from Macedonia to Thrace,to normal conventional operations.The railway line between Greece and Turkey is parallel to that of the borders so i think by concept had nothing to do with sci-fi.

 

[r16]

why , any border fight you will need more than a machine gun is one where your Airforce and Navy have been knocked out , half the islands taken . Would you really want to keep going ?

 

[perttime]

A train is a big target. A railway is an even bigger target. And you always know where it is.

 

[Yellow Palace]

The Soviets assembled armoured trains in the 1970s to defend the Trans-Siberian against sabotage; they comprised

• Five 'attack groups' with an armoured locomotive and two flat cars each carrying a tank (for its' turret, mobility was optional) and an infantry detachment.
• A 'command group' with an armoured locomotive, command car (with AA guns), flat car with more AA guns, and two PT-76 on flat cars with ramps for dismounting.
• A reconnaissance group of eight road-rail BTR-40s, with four flat cars to carry them over longer distances if required.
• Two cover wagons, front and rear, to protect against mines travelling in either direction
• Boxcars, passenger coaches, and field kitchen cars as required

Several such trains were assembled, based near Chita, and they were deployed to Caucasia. It's clearly something of a niche capability, though.

 

[Bottleship]

Russian trains

 

[Bottleship]

Train, who named a "Baikal" ("Байкал")

 

[Bottleship]

Train, who named a "Kozma Minin" ("Козьма Минин")

 

[Bottleship]

Train, who named a "Terek" ("Терек")

 

[Bottleship]

Also, "Terek"

 

[DWG]

In any kind of hot war an armoured train is going to get itself turned into a poorly protected bunker complex fast. Blow up the tracks behind it, simple nowadays, and it has nowhere to go. Then you can either ignore it, or let the AF and artillery use it for target practise.

The only place it might have applicability is when you're facing a guerrilla threat and dependent on a long, isolated rail link as your main supply route. And even there airmobile forces are more flexible.

 

[uk 75]

If you want to have some model railway trains to practise with, the British Triang firm in the early 60s had some wagon with n.a.t.o stamped on them and Royal Artillery markings

Category:Novelty wagons (Triang Railways)

www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk

 

[Desertfox]

Perhaps not an "armored" train, but a missile train loaded up with ATACMS/LRPF/Iskander could still find use in modern conflict, very easy and fast to deploy, with sufficient range to stay safely behind the frontlines.

 

[Fluff]

I'd have thought camouflaging it as a cargo train would be more effective, than actual camo, i.e. a Q Train.

 

[DWG]

All trains are targets. Doesn't matter if they're armoured or not, disguised or not, they're a significant logistical capability, and destroying them blocks a supply route.

 

[riggerrob]

WI if you use trains to move and supply coastal artillery?
Install sidings at every likely firing position along with semi-concealed ammo and crew bunkers.

 

[dan_inbox]

Trains, any variant of them, primarily suffer from having a trajectory that is so predictable.
If your foe buys armored train, you just do your homework and get a map of railroads.
Then there are so many way of disrupting such fixed, obvious and exposed track targets that it's not even fun...

Like was said already, just blow up the tracks anywhere and all the trains are lame ducks.
(Except I'd blow tracks _ahead_ of the trains, not behind, to prevent them getting to where they'd be useful)

 

[royabulgaf]

Trains, any variant of them, primarily suffer from having a trajectory that is so predictable.
If your foe buys armored train, you just do your homework and get a map of railroads.
Then there are so many way of disrupting such fixed, obvious and exposed track targets that it's not even fun...

Like was said already, just blow up the tracks anywhere and all the trains are lame ducks.
(Except I'd blow tracks _ahead_ of the trains, not behind, to prevent them getting to where they'd be useful)

 

[royabulgaf]

Exactly. The USSR situation was unique. The Trans Siberian Railroad was a lifeline to the Soviet Far East. The area infrastructure was poor to nonexistent, with no paved road system to speak of. Were a Chinese invasion, the CHicoms would have to haul in every single liter of gas and bag of rice and box of ammo on off road capable trucks clanking along at 20 mph. These armored trains would be great rapid reaction forces. Keep a supply of rails on board, and cross train the infantry as gandy dancers and you're good to go. But as I said, the above section was unique. I don't know what the road system along the Greco-Turkish border is, but it's the Autobahn compared to the Russian far east. The Turks could probably afford to have drones shadowing the trains at all times. Precision guided weapons could easily obliterate substantial lengths of track, and blow bridges. They look cool, but sadly they are an idea whose time has come and gone.