never realized projects of Japanese destroyers ww2

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T-50

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Hi dear people I know that the Japanese navy was testing the IJN Shimakaze destroyer it stayed by one example, so she was one of a kind.
Does somebody know there were more paper project destroyers or a further developed version of the IJN Shimakaze?
 
T-50 said:
Hi dear people I know that the Japanese navy was testing the IJN Shimakaze destroyer it stayed by one example, so she was one of a kind.
Does somebody know there were more paper project destroyers or a further developed version of the IJN Shimakaze?
Click to expand...

There are only a few projects.
Shimakaze (Project Number F-52) preliminary with 2x7 61cm torpedo tubes but the launchers deemed too large and heavy for the hull

The Super Shimakaze (Pre Project Number V-6) with somewhat slower speed due to standardised engines (68km/h rather 73) more AA guns compared to the original as launched, and 3 sextuple (6 barrel) torpedo tubes dated 1942

The Super Akizuki (Pre Project Number V-7) a modified Akizuki (Project Number F-51A (Akizuki), B (Fuyutsuki) and F-53 (Michitsuki)) with wider beam of 12 meters rather 11,2 meters but faster, 68km/h rather 61km/h and longer range of 14.800km rather 11.000km, heavier displacement of 3.030tons standard and 3.800tons full load otherwise the same armament as the Akizukis though a heavier torpedo armament might had been considered and dated 1941/42.

The Matsu and Tachibana (Project Numbers F-55A and B ) would had originally a sextuple (6 barelled) 61cm torpedo tube, but due to production delays the simpler quad launchers were mounted.

These are all that I'm aware of. There should be at least one design which we lack information on and based on the number system:

F-48 - Asashio class (1934)
F-49 - Kagero class (1937)
F-50 - Yugumo class (1939)
F-51A - Akizuki class (1939)
F-51B - Fuyutsuki class (1941)
F-52 - Shimakaze class (1941)
F-53 - Michitsuki class (1942)
F-55A - Matsu class (1942)
F-55B - Tachibana class (1942)

The F-54 destroyer design is missing and if there are any post Matsu/Tachibana proposals.
 
Hi Tzoli
thanks for this very interesting information! much of this information is new to me.
For example I did not know that the Japanese navy had plans to build further development types of the Akizuki and Matsu class destroyers.
Further I Always thought that the Shimakaze was the dead end of this destroyer class only ment for trying out new propulsing engines and hull shapes,any way as I early in my replay said this is amazing interesting info!
 
Well Shimakaze's engines were first prototyped in IJN Amatsukaze and based on those refined for Shimakaze.
I think many WW2 Japanese project data was lost during the war when the USAF bombed their cities with incendiary bombs.
We lack knowledge of the pre Yamato (A-140) project numbers as well as the 9 project number following it to the A-150 aka Super Yamato.
And I start to question that the B-65 Battlecrusier / Large Cruiser / Super Type A Cruiser would had a Nelson style bridge as depicted in naval books.

The info on their cruiser projects likewise scarce so oes some of their large carrier projects.
 
Its indeed a pitty that many documents were burned by the US bombardments,I also wants to know more about these projects.
And about the B-65 battle cruiser design,when it was really build ,I think it was more a scaled down version of the Yamato class than a Nelson type battleship.
 
A quick look at the wiki pages of the Yugumo and Tachibana class destroyers shows that Kai- variants were planned but cancelled before being laid down
 
Tzoli said:
T-50 said:
Hi dear people I know that the Japanese navy was testing the IJN Shimakaze destroyer it stayed by one example, so she was one of a kind.
Does somebody know there were more paper project destroyers or a further developed version of the IJN Shimakaze?
Click to expand...

There are only a few projects.
Shimakaze (Project Number F-52) preliminary with 2x7 61cm torpedo tubes but the launchers deemed too large and heavy for the hull

The Super Shimakaze (Pre Project Number V-6) with somewhat slower speed due to standardised engines (68km/h rather 73) more AA guns compared to the original as launched, and 3 sextuple (6 barrel) torpedo tubes dated 1942

The Super Akizuki (Pre Project Number V-7) a modified Akizuki (Project Number F-51A (Akizuki), B (Fuyutsuki) and F-53 (Michitsuki)) with wider beam of 12 meters rather 11,2 meters but faster, 68km/h rather 61km/h and longer range of 14.800km rather 11.000km, heavier displacement of 3.030tons standard and 3.800tons full load otherwise the same armament as the Akizukis though a heavier torpedo armament might had been considered and dated 1941/42.

The Matsu and Tachibana (Project Numbers F-55A and B ) would had originally a sextuple (6 barelled) 61cm torpedo tube, but due to production delays the simpler quad launchers were mounted.

These are all that I'm aware of. There should be at least one design which we lack information on and based on the number system:

F-48 - Asashio class (1934)
F-49 - Kagero class (1937)
F-50 - Yugumo class (1939)
F-51A - Akizuki class (1939)
F-51B - Fuyutsuki class (1941)
F-52 - Shimakaze class (1941)
F-53 - Michitsuki class (1942)
F-55A - Matsu class (1942)
F-55B - Tachibana class (1942)

The F-54 destroyer design is missing and if there are any post Matsu/Tachibana proposals.
Click to expand...
A couple of questions;

What is the source of the above information? The Shimakaze projects are new to me.

With regards to the super Akizuki, is there a length and drawings that go with it?
 
M. A. Rozon said:
Tzoli said:
T-50 said:
Hi dear people I know that the Japanese navy was testing the IJN Shimakaze destroyer it stayed by one example, so she was one of a kind.
Does somebody know there were more paper project destroyers or a further developed version of the IJN Shimakaze?
Click to expand...

There are only a few projects.
Shimakaze (Project Number F-52) preliminary with 2x7 61cm torpedo tubes but the launchers deemed too large and heavy for the hull

The Super Shimakaze (Pre Project Number V-6) with somewhat slower speed due to standardised engines (68km/h rather 73) more AA guns compared to the original as launched, and 3 sextuple (6 barrel) torpedo tubes dated 1942

The Super Akizuki (Pre Project Number V-7) a modified Akizuki (Project Number F-51A (Akizuki), B (Fuyutsuki) and F-53 (Michitsuki)) with wider beam of 12 meters rather 11,2 meters but faster, 68km/h rather 61km/h and longer range of 14.800km rather 11.000km, heavier displacement of 3.030tons standard and 3.800tons full load otherwise the same armament as the Akizukis though a heavier torpedo armament might had been considered and dated 1941/42.

The Matsu and Tachibana (Project Numbers F-55A and B ) would had originally a sextuple (6 barelled) 61cm torpedo tube, but due to production delays the simpler quad launchers were mounted.

These are all that I'm aware of. There should be at least one design which we lack information on and based on the number system:

F-48 - Asashio class (1934)
F-49 - Kagero class (1937)
F-50 - Yugumo class (1939)
F-51A - Akizuki class (1939)
F-51B - Fuyutsuki class (1941)
F-52 - Shimakaze class (1941)
F-53 - Michitsuki class (1942)
F-55A - Matsu class (1942)
F-55B - Tachibana class (1942)

The F-54 destroyer design is missing and if there are any post Matsu/Tachibana proposals.
Click to expand...
A couple of questions;

What is the source of the above information? The Shimakaze projects are new to me.

With regards to the super Akizuki, is there a length and drawings that go with it?
Click to expand...
Numerous sources:
Conway's All the World Fighting Ships 1922-1946
Eric Lacroix - Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War
Japanese Wiki
Number of online sites except the English Wikipedia

There are no dimensions data or drawings for the V-6 and V-7 projects.
 
I found reference, but practically no other details, about a Yugumo-kai destroyer. Is there any information as to what changes it had compared to the regular Yugumo?
Also, regarding the V-6 Shimakaze-kai, what power did the standardized engines had? Presumably less that the 75,000 HP of the Shimakaze?
Finally, any info whether the Yugumo-kai and/or Shimakaze-kai were supposed to have the true (and heavier) DP 12,7cm/50 Type 1 guns?
 
Shimakaze used the prototype of the new turbines and boilers so I presume all future ships would use the same design to standardize and simplify production. I don't know how successeful or problematic was Shimakaze's powerplant but I doubt the Improved or modified Shimakazes would be equipped with less powerful engines.

As for the Yugumo-Kai, I vaguely remember seeing them mentioned here and there, but I cannot add new info.

The 12,7cm Type 1 / 5 were meant for a new generation DP-AA gun presumably for cruisers and capital ships. The evidence that the Shimakaze got the older Type 3 guns in twin turrets instead of Akizukis 10cm Type 98 guns in twin turrets suggest the IJN destroyer doctrine separated their future destroyers into AA type (Akizukis and her successor types: Limited torpedo armament good number of light AA and 10cm AA guns) and Anti-Surface types (Many torpedo tubes and anti surface gun armament)
There was also a new 10cm gun under developmet by the end of the war which was intended for new escort ships according to navweaps.

The Yugumo-Kai might had gotten stronger light AA and possibly heavier torpedo armament, note that Shimakaze was designed with 2x7 61cm torpedo tubes and this might had been chosen for the Yugumo-Kai as well, but due to this mounting being much larger and heavier Shimakze got 3x5 instead. Note that the Matsu class escort destroyers were designed with a single 6 tube 61cm launcher but got the more simple quad ones.

This indicates the IJN actively developing new launcher types for future vessels.
 
The Japanese wiki does mention this Yugumo-Kai type:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/夕雲型駆逐艦#甲型駆逐艦

Also, at the end of the Pacific War, the Matsu-type destroyer was not satisfied with its low speed and four torpedo armament lines, and the Naval General Staff and the Naval Administration Headquarters proposed a new destroyer with a speed of 33 knots, high-angle guns, and eight or more lines of fire. A ship type that has a torpedo and is suitable for rapid construction has surfaced [25]. However, it is said that it ended without going beyond the realm of my idea and realizing the plan [25]. This ship type is also called Kou type [25].
Click to expand...
Quoted source:
海軍造船技術概要(1987)上巻p.427
Naval Shipbuilding Technology Overview (1987) Volume 1 p.427
https://books.google.hu/books/about/海軍造船技術概要.html?id=_rapAAAACAAJ&redir_esc=y
https://www.amazon.com/Kaigun-zōsen-gijutsu-gaiyō-Japanese/dp/4875652054
 
Much appreciate your insight as always Tzoli. I guess we can imagine the Yugumo-kai with possibly 2x5 torpedo launchers like used on Shimakaze and increase light AA, presumably retaining the old powerplant since i understand that the new boilers and turbines from Shimakaze were too complicated/ needing quality materials to be economical/affordable for japanese wartime production? My interpretation is that because the war situation the cheaper and easier to produce Yugumo-kai replaced the more complicated Shimakaze-kai (especially the new engines) in planning?
 
A question: were there any plans to put Okha model 22 (the one with motorjet engine) on destroyers? One my friend mentioned such concepts being investigated in 1945, but I'm not sure.
 
Never heard of it. IJN oil reserves were very low by 1945 and they were preparing the defence of the home islands with every means.
 
A question: (sorry for bringing up the old post.) Any information about whether the V7 Super Shimakaze would have 3x6 61cm Torpedo Tubes? and V6 Super Akizuki would have 1x6 61cm??
 
Shimakaze-Kai apparently would had sextuple tubes. Akizuki-Kai unknown but likely.
 
Tzoli said:
Shimakaze-Kai apparently would had sextuple tubes. Akizuki-Kai unknown but likely.
Click to expand...
Based on an appendix in Lacroix and Wells' Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War, The Akizuki-Kai was to have a Sextuple Longlance mount.
 

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