Need help for C.N.N.A. projects

[Maveric]

Hi all,

I need your help with brasilian C.N.N.A. projects. I know the H.L.1/3/4/5/6/8 and 13 are real aircraft.
If you can please, I search for pics and technical data for the H.L.2/7/9/10 and 11. For the H.L.14 and H.L.15 I need only technical data.

Servus Maveric ???

 

[hesham]

Hi Maveric,

please see; http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7096&highlight=cnna

[Site is gone - Admin]

 

[Apophenia]

Maveric,

Have you already seen this site?

http://www.museutec.org.br/resgatememoria2002/old/enciclop/cap002/025.html

"A CNNA realizou estudos e construiu alguns protótipos que nunca chegaram a ser produzidos em série e outros jamais voaram. O modelo HL 2 foi um desses aparelhos. Concebido para o transporte de seis passageiros ou para emprego pelo Correio Aéreo, o HL 2 seria um bimotor de asa baixa e contaria com dois motores de 130 e 200 cavalos. O protótipo chegou a ser montado parcialmente e empregava madeiras nacionais na estrutura e no revestimento."

Perhaps a Portuguese-speaking member can translate? It sounds like they are saying that a HL 2 prototype was built but never flown.

HL 2 was to be a low-winged, twin-engine aircraft of wooden construction (primary structure and partially skinned). Power by two 130- to 200-hp engines. 6-passenger or Air Mail duties.

"Os aparelhos que receberam a numeração 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 e 13 jamais saíram do papel. A aeronave HL 14 chegou à fase de protótipo. Era um monomotor de treinamento de dois lugares."

So, HL 7, HL 9, HL 10 and HL 11 were paper exercises only. No data for the HL 14 other than it being a prototype single-engined two-seat trainer.

 

[Maveric]

Hi Apophenia ,

yes I Know this site, but need more info´s :

Servus Maveric

 

[gral_rj]

"A CNNA realizou estudos e construiu alguns protótipos que nunca chegaram a ser produzidos em série e outros jamais voaram. O modelo HL 2 foi um desses aparelhos. Concebido para o transporte de seis passageiros ou para emprego pelo Correio Aéreo, o HL 2 seria um bimotor de asa baixa e contaria com dois motores de 130 e 200 cavalos. O protótipo chegou a ser montado parcialmente e empregava madeiras nacionais na estrutura e no revestimento."

"Os aparelhos que receberam a numeração 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 e 13 jamais saíram do papel. A aeronave HL 14 chegou à fase de protótipo. Era um monomotor de treinamento de dois lugares."

CNNA did studies and built some prototypes that never reached series production and some never even flew. The HL 2 model was one of those machines. Designed to carry six passengers or to be used on postal flights, the HL 2 would have been a low-wing, twin-engined design, with 130 or 200 HP engines. The prototype was partially assembled and used Brazilian* woods on its structure and skin.

The machines numbered 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 were paper designs only. A prototype of the HL 14 was built. It was a single-engined, two-seat training aircraft.

*The word used here actually is "national", that is, non-imported.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

a small informations about CNNA projects, the HL-7 was
light transport aircraft powered by two engines,the HL-9
was twin-engined version of HL-8,the HL-10 was four-
engined transport aircraft (may be related to Boeing-307),
the HL-11 was single-engined version of HL-8,the HL-12
was transport aircraft and the HL-15 jet trainer aircraft.

 

[hesham]

a small informations about CNNA projects, the HL-7 was
light transport aircraft powered by two engines,the HL-9
was twin-engined version of HL-8,the HL-10 was four-
engined transport aircraft (may be related to Boeing-307),
the HL-11 was single-engined version of HL-8,the HL-12
was transport aircraft and the HL-15 jet trainer aircraft.

Unfortunately when my computer crashed,I lost many project
pictures,can anyone give us a drawings to them?,and thanks.

 

[hesham]

From, Historia da Construcao Aeronautica no Brasil,

the HL-8.

 

[paraguassuu]

From, Historia da Construcao Aeronautica no Brasil,

the HL-8.

Where I can find this book?

 

[hesham]

Where I can find this book?

Welcome aboard Paraguassuu,

you can find it here;

Amazon.co.uk

 

[paraguassuu]

Where I can find this book?

Welcome aboard Paraguassuu,

you can find it here;

Amazon.co.uk

Unfortunately it is unavailable, but thanks anyway. I will try find out.

 

[Apophenia]

I came across a website on FFAF ace Pierre Clostermann run by his son, Pierre-Alain Clostermann. In this site, it is claimed that a young Pierre Clostermann designed and flew the 1940 prototype aircraft which led to the CNNA HL-6 series. And I'm not quite sure what to make of this ...

Un avion construit à 18 ans: Le HL2: https://pierre.clostermann.org/hl2-un-avion-a-18-ans/

Its an odd story but, first, a bit of background. Pierre Clostermann was born in Brazil where his father, Jacques, was a banker who also acted as a French diplomat in Rio. An air-minded youth, while still at school, Pierre trained as a pilot and wrote articles on aviation for the Rio newspaper, the Correio da Manhã.

In 1939, Pierre tried unsuccessfully to join the Armée de l'Air. He then accepted a scholarship to study aeronautical engineering at the Ryan School of Aeronautics in San Diego. In 1939, Clostermann was invited to submit a design to CNNA by its founder, industrialist Henrique Lage. According to this pierre-clostermann-org. website, that design was the original HL-2 (as opposed to the unbuilt Beech 18 clone we know).

Returning to Brazil during school holidays, Pierre Clostermann oversaw the completion of his prototype. The aircraft had an engine paid for by the director of the Correio da Manhã, Paulo de Bettencourt (in exchange for 'Correio da Manhã' being painted on the fuselage). The prototype was completed and then test-flown by Clostermann before he had to return to schoold in the US in May 1940. Shortly thereafter, the Clostermann designed prototype was written off in a crash.

So, what are we to make of these claims?

Pierre Clostermann didn't come off as the sort to 'grow his part'. But the article asserts that René Vandeale dusted off Clostermann's drawings in order to create his HL-6 series. Was this some postwar confusion over a student aeronautical engineer assisting a more experienced designer? And, in recounting his part at CNNA to relatives, did Clostermann confuse the HL-2 and HL-3 designations?

The HL-6 claim seems far fetched - there is little but a similarity of general lay-out. However, the photos published by Pierre-Alain Clostermann look all the world like an HL-3 with an HO6 engine in a longer cowling. The artwork shows a more modern tailwheel than the type on the HL-3 (although that tailwheel isn't actually visible in the long grass in either photo, so it may be artist's license). I'm a bit at sea here ... anyone have any hard facts on this?

 

[Apophenia]

BTW, if paraguassuu is still interested used copies of Roberto Pereira's História da construção aeronáutica no Brasil can be found online. Eg:
-- https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br...uco-aeronautica-no-brasil-roberto-pereira-_JM

 

[SirCoutin]

Hey there, I'm Brazillian and I have a PDF Copy of that book which I scanned myself.

 

[dan_inbox]

Un avion construit à 18 ans: Le HL2: https://pierre-clostermann-org./hl2-un-avion-a-18-ans/

Typo in the url. It is

Un avion dessiné et construit à 18 ans : le HL2 (Brésil, 1939)

En 1939, avec le financement conjoint de Henrique Lage et de Paulo Bettencourt, Pierre Clostermann dessine et construit son premier avion, le HL2.

pierre.clostermann.org

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks Dan ... fixed.

Note to self: Proof, proof again

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Please no discussion of exchanging scanned copies of books on the forum.

 

[shina-chan]

interesting