Morane-Saulnier Interwar Fighter Projects and Prototypes

[hesham]

Hi,

in the book,The encyclopedia of aircraft by Robert Jackson,the Morane-
Saulnier MS.420 and MS.440 were developed from MS.406;
Morane-Saulnier MS.420:single-seat fighter based on MS.406 but with a completely
retractable radiator.
,, ,, MS.440:single seat night fighter based on MS-406.

About the site which dear Toura spoke yesterday about it,I think
it was a misprint,the MS.420 C.1 was meant as I think MS.240 C.1,
that is because in 1931 the MS company was never reach 300
series,how it allocated its project to the 400 series ?.

http://aerophile.over-blog.com/article-un-projet-improbable-le-morane-saulnier-420-c1-1931-47355729.html

 

[Tophe]

A high-wing pusher twin-boomer with spats, this is very rare, thanks!

 

[Just call me Ray]

Hmmm...may I ask if it's possible to get more detailed plans?

 

[Jemiba]

"Hmmm...may I ask if it's possible to get more detailed plans?"

For a project, the plan already is quite good detailed, I think, and as there wasn't another
Morane Saulnier type with this configuration, I would suggest, that it was just a kind of
"feasibilty study", or "concept", as it would be called nowadays. More details perhaps could
be added by the method of the "plausible guess" and comparing it with other contemporary
designs. There are, for example no recognisable exhausts.
It seems, Jaques Moulin has really found a kind of bonanza, many thanks for sharing from this place !

"I think it was a misprint,the MS.420 C.1 was meant as I think MS.240 C.1 "

Seems logical to me, too, but .. designation systems unfortuantely aren't always logical either!
Maybe the MS.420 was an alternative design to the MS.221 (the 22 or 220 series ?) and the designation
was just chosen to distinguish it from the winning design ? As this number wasn't actually used
(and made public), using it for a derivative of the MS.406 wouldn't be seen as a problem.
A similar case may be the MS.640 which we discussed in another thread.

 

[hesham]

My dear Jemiba,

for the misprint,I believe it was not MS.420,but about MS.220 or
221 series,we know it appeared in 1928,and if we said MS.320,
that aircraft was acrobatic one as in Avions magazine,the MS.240
was the only possibility.

 

[Tophe]

See http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morane-Saulnier
the list of codes is partly chronological but not perfectly, there are exceptions.

 

[Jemiba]

I don't believe in a typo or misprint. It's quite probably an original manufacturers
document and although not even the manufacturer isn't immune against errors, we
have the second case of a designation out of the "regular" system here (the other is
the MS.640). So I think, it was a kind of an internal designation, maybe to distinguish
two concepts, because the winning one was selected.

 

[hesham]

Ok my dears Tophe and Jemiba,

but for the MS.420 which it was developed from MS.406,it
was appeared in 1939.

 

[Tophe]

Soon, the magazine "Le Trait d'Union" will detail the Morane-Saulnier projects od the 1920s and 1930s, I will tell you the explanation or correction about this peculiar code.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

that site strikes again,here is the Morane-Saulnier MS.520
C.1 of 1931,it was involved in 1930 program.

http://aerophile.over-blog.com/

 

[Tophe]

In the Trait d'Union #260 (Nov-Dec 2011) is detailed the list of Morane Saulnier types:
- MS-240 (1930), ambulance ("sanitaire"), 1 engine of 150hp, project only
- MS-420 (1931, while after the MS-411&412 of 1939): single-seat fighter (C1 class) with 1 engine Hispano 12 Mc of 500hp, project with twin-booms and pusher propeller
- MS-440 (1940) CN1 class (night fighter?), 1 built but not completed

 

[Tophe]

Concerning explanation, there may be 2 families of codes:
- drawing-board codes: this #420 of 1931, the famous MS-406 of 1938 being maybe #750
- final codes, for budget: maybe never allocated for #420, MS-406 decided for #750, MS-240 for maybe #300.
My company uses in this way 2 families of codes, not in aeronautics and not with figures, but the principle is very possible.

 

[Tophe]

Correction: the MS-420 seems to have been involved in a temporary different coding...
Because, the MS-520 is also a single seat fighter 1931, coming after the MS-500of 1944 (and MS-506 of 1960)
So, it seems instead of increasing the last numbers keeping unchanged the hundredths (like MS-406 then MS-407), Morane seems to have tried changing the hundredth (as the German did with Ju-88/188/288/388/488): single-seat fighters MS-220 of 1930, or MS-320, or MS-420 twin-boom of 1931, or MS-520 biplane of 1931. Then this way would have been stopped, and the MS-320 being reallocated to a 1934 "Et2 class" (training?, 320hp), MS-420 and MS-520 being unchanged (or replaced by forgotten types).
May be. The MS-420/520 coincidence cannot be explained otherwise, I think.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


and a more details from anther drawing.

 

[Jemiba]

As we have relatively few information on each design and they are often related
to each other, I merged them into this thread with a new title.

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Jemiba,that's better.

 

[hesham]

From Le Fana 182,

here is a Morane-Saulnier MS.325 premier and developed three Project drawings.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! M.S.325 larger three side view drawing.

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/morane_ms-325.php

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/2-Airplanes/Allies/4-France/01-Fighters/MS-325/MS-325.htm

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/388814-morane-saulnier-ms325/