Miles Aircraft Merlin/Martlet

VictorXL188

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I am still ruminating through bits and pieces of AST-412, and as I work my way through the list I come to the Miles Aircraft Merlin/Martlet. I seem to vaguely remember something about a son of M.100, but that might be the Alzheimer's causing a short circuit. Can anyone help with further info please?
 
I don't think that the Martlet was ever officially submitted.
No detailed specifications were submitted to the RAE/MoD so the aircraft wasn't considered. The evaluation document I referred too in the T-46A thread has only one mention of the Martlet - and that's limited to an empty row in a table on production aspects of all the contenders.

As far as I can tell, the Merlin and the Martlet were modernised versions of the Student but with a modified fuselage for tandem seating. The Merlin had a Garrett F109 turbofan and the Martlet a ducted-fan. How much of the M.100 DNA was retained in these designs I can't say.
 
I don't think that the Martlet was ever officially submitted.
No detailed specifications were submitted to the RAE/MoD so the aircraft wasn't considered. The evaluation document I referred too in the T-46A thread has only one mention of the Martlet - and that's limited to an empty row in a table on production aspects of all the contenders.

As far as I can tell, the Merlin and the Martlet were modernised versions of the Student but with a modified fuselage for tandem seating. The Merlin had a Garrett F109 turbofan and the Martlet a ducted-fan. How much of the M.100 DNA was retained in these designs I can't say.
Thanks for that, the list I referred to it being included on is the one posted in the https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/british-ast-412-light-aircraft.3915/#post-312408 post 5, which I believe, if my memory serves right was published in Flight International. Due to that magazines now lack of cooperation, in that you cannot download anything, I'm just relying on memory.
 
Okay I've used a generic tandem cockpit on my hypothetical Merlin, but the only detail I've omitted is the intake, possibly side?, as I thought the dorsal one used in the Student would have flow problems with my hypothetical bulged rear seat to allow a raised position for the instructor. I will attempt to use this same basis to have a go at the Martlet, but with the ducted fan that may take a little more time!

Miles Merlin_Martlet.jpg
 
Thanks for that, the list I referred to it being included on is the one posted in the https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/british-ast-412-light-aircraft.3915/#post-312408 post 5, which I believe, if my memory serves right was published in Flight International
Not to self-publicise myself but... Aviation Historian No.38 has an article by yours truly on the AST.412 contenders; Shorts Tucano Vs Pilatus PC9: Replacing the Jet Provost in RAF Service.
It is an expanded version of the AST.412 discussion from Teach for the Sky with a bit more politics thrown in and a little less technical detail.

The Flight listing is accurate - but then AST.412 was subject to all sorts of lobbying via newspapers and aviation press so this is no surprise. A lot of people were interested in how it might turn out. It was probably the last ever RAF super-contest that brought to together the big boys from around the world and the minnows who thought if they chanced their arm that riches would follow.

As to the Merlin/Martlet - I suspect, like Apophenia, that its origins are early than 1982-84.
In the late 1970s small turbofan and ducted fan trainers were seen as the next big thing to beat the rising fuel costs of the 70s. Scottish Aviation for example drew up the Sapphire using Bulldog bits and pieces with a Lycoming ALF101.

In early 1976 George Miles proposed fitting the M.100 with a Williams International turbofan. The M.100 G-MIOO (ex-G-APLK) was still flying so its possible a straightforward conversion was planned.
Miles claimed up to 870nm (1,610km) range on just 91 gal (413lit) of fuel and a unit cost of £70,000-£130,000. Miles also claimed that he had interest from El Salvador, the Philippines and a US/Swiss business group which was trying to interest the USAF. With some backdoor help by Donald Euan Palmer Howard, 4th Baron Strathcona and Mount Royal who had (and would) serve several government defence posts, the MoD took a look at the figures but threw them out. In 1978 BAe Prestwick was asked to assess the type as a potential BAe product but their assessment was equally unenthusiastic.

So it sounds like George Miles decided to upgrade from a Williams to a Garrett and adopt a tandem cockpit. But changing the entire forward fuselage would seem a drastic step, cutting about G-MIOO to that extent probably wasn't feasible so a new airframe would be likely I would think. Plus the aerodynamics might need upgrading and I'm sure the Garrett would need more air and so a larger intake.
 
Thanks for that, the list I referred to it being included on is the one posted in the https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/british-ast-412-light-aircraft.3915/#post-312408 post 5, which I believe, if my memory serves right was published in Flight International
Not to self-publicise myself but... Aviation Historian No.38 has an article by yours truly on the AST.412 contenders; Shorts Tucano Vs Pilatus PC9: Replacing the Jet Provost in RAF Service.
It is an expanded version of the AST.412 discussion from Teach for the Sky with a bit more politics thrown in and a little less technical detail.

The Flight listing is accurate - but then AST.412 was subject to all sorts of lobbying via newspapers and aviation press so this is no surprise. A lot of people were interested in how it might turn out. It was probably the last ever RAF super-contest that brought to together the big boys from around the world and the minnows who thought if they chanced their arm that riches would follow.

As to the Merlin/Martlet - I suspect, like Apophenia, that its origins are early than 1982-84.
In the late 1970s small turbofan and ducted fan trainers were seen as the next big thing to beat the rising fuel costs of the 70s. Scottish Aviation for example drew up the Sapphire using Bulldog bits and pieces with a Lycoming ALF101.

In early 1976 George Miles proposed fitting the M.100 with a Williams International turbofan. The M.100 G-MIOO (ex-G-APLK) was still flying so its possible a straightforward conversion was planned.
Miles claimed up to 870nm (1,610km) range on just 91 gal (413lit) of fuel and a unit cost of £70,000-£130,000. Miles also claimed that he had interest from El Salvador, the Philippines and a US/Swiss business group which was trying to interest the USAF. With some backdoor help by Donald Euan Palmer Howard, 4th Baron Strathcona and Mount Royal who had (and would) serve several government defence posts, the MoD took a look at the figures but threw them out. In 1978 BAe Prestwick was asked to assess the type as a potential BAe product but their assessment was equally unenthusiastic.

So it sounds like George Miles decided to upgrade from a Williams to a Garrett and adopt a tandem cockpit. But changing the entire forward fuselage would seem a drastic step, cutting about G-MIOO to that extent probably wasn't feasible so a new airframe would be likely I would think. Plus the aerodynamics might need upgrading and I'm sure the Garrett would need more air and so a larger intake.
Thanks Hood for the succinct reply. I keep on meaning to get into The Aviation Historian, particularly as a former colleague, Nick Stroud is involved
 
Only taken two years but I was revising old posts and realised I never posted my what-if of the Miles Martlet, which was to use a ducted fan.
 

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