Me 262 - Projects, Pre-Projects And Variants

[Michel Van]

Before someone gets confused: That is a twin engined design, just two sketches overlaid.

So, it looks like an HG-II or HG-III study, but without the increased sweep to the tail, and with the engines faired into the underside of the fuselauge rather than embedded in the wing roots? Interesting!

I think there not engine, but two bombs in aerodynamic covers, was proposed for Schnellbomber II

 

[robunos]

Not sure if this the right place, but I don't think it warrants it's own topic . . .
A question. If the German jet engines had turned out to be unsuccessful, would a piston engined Me262, powered by by, say a DB603, been a viable combat aircraft?


cheers,
Robin.

 

[GTX]

Probably not. Might as well have kept with existing designs. K about the closest one would get would be the Me309.

 

[sienar]

Interesting bit of research. From this pdf with lots of other neat info http://www.dglr.de/literatur/publikationen/DGLR_Hamel-JHV_2006-Vortrag.pdf

 

[Imperialist]

Have a question, I vaguely remember reading about a (planned?) twin 37mm variant of the 262. Can someone tell me if this is real or fake?
Thanks,
Imperialist

 

[Silencer1]

Hello, sienar!

Interesting bit of research. From this pdf with lots of other neat info http://www.dglr.de/literatur/publikationen/DGLR_Hamel-JHV_2006-Vortrag.pdf

Thanks for sharin - the story about supersonic (and other) researches in Germany is intersting.
I wonder, how the additional fairings near engines' pods could be threated as "area rule" measure.
The cross section are only increased in the zone, where the area was already large.

Any suggestions?

 

[sgeorges4]

Where the Me P1099 come from?
I ask my question hhere because this aircraft yse a lot from the me 262.

 

[sgeorges4]

Me P1099

Something interesting from J-C Mermet: http://fighters.forumactif.com/t44515p15-me-p-1099-b

 

[newsdeskdan]

Re: Me P1099

Something interesting from J-C Mermet: http://fighters.forumactif.com/t44515p15-me-p-1099-b

Hmm. He doesn't really seem to know anything much about it. Scott Lowther (Orionblamblam on here) has the P 1100 Baubeschreibung for sale on his website http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/catalog/airdoc4.jpg - yours for all of $4. Better to get your information from a primary source document.

 

[sgeorges4]

Re: Me P1099

Thanks!
Can I have a link for this please?

 

[newsdeskdan]

Re: Me P1099

Thanks!
Can I have a link for this please?

Sorry, that link wasn't right. Try this one instead http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/catalog/drawndoc.htm. Scroll down to somewhere near the middle and it's listed as 'Air Document 4'.

 

[sgeorges4]

Re: Me P1099

Thank!I will take it with some me 262 from hobby boss(3 in 1:48 scale).

 

[sgeorges4]

A ton of possibility!

 

[sgeorges4]

Where does it come from?

 

[sgeorges4]

a Drawing on page 71 "Jet Planes of the Third Reich" vol.1 Manfred Griehl for the armored canopy.
As for Me262 designations, Me262D-1 was alternate designation of the '262 C-2b, '262 E-1 alternate designation for '262A-1a/U4 (50mm cannon), and '262E-2 was to have RA55 automatic rocket dispensers, loaded with R4M rockets.

what was the RA 55?

 

[Jemiba]

Where the Me P1099 come from?

As you correctly assumed, it was mainly based on the Me 262, it's even covered by Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_P.1099

Where does it come from?

The artist is clearly recognisable on that picture (user name here is "PlanesPicture") and the type is
already mentioned here https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6994.msg59903.html#msg59903

what was the RA 55?

"RA 55" stands for "Raketenautomat 55", meaning automatic launcher for 55 mm rockets, drawing
and description to be found here http://www.germanluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/f/Flakraketen/R4M%20Orkan/R4M%20Orkan.html and mention on several other sites.

It's absolutely ok to ask, but some basic research, like using Google or the search function here
should be done before, as recommended by the forum rules !

 

[sienar]

Some high speed canopies tested by DVL

 

[sgeorges4]

Thank! Is the nose with rocket variant is real or not?(It's for buying moar me 262 from hobby boss ).

 

[Michel Van]

excuse me is that on top is a Me 262 A-2a/U2(V555) bomber version ?
if yes, this drawing show were the two MK 108 are installed in it's fuselage !

 

[sgeorges4]

Yep,and the mistel can be done with a A1a variant(that why you see the classic me 262 nose with the MK 108),and you can do it with a A1a below).

 

[Silencer1]

Interesting bit of research. From this pdf with lots of other neat info http://www.dglr.de/literatur/publikationen/DGLR_Hamel-JHV_2006-Vortrag.pdf

Thanks for the sharing the history of aircraft research in DVL. A lot of impressive test and testing facilities.

I wonder, how could additional fairings on the Me-262' wings improve it's 'area rule" distribution of cross sections' areas?
It have been placed in the nearly same distance from the nose, wher engine nacelles located.
Perhaps, placing them rear to the canopy was a possible cause?

 

[sgeorges4]

me 262 lorin: http://deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Me%20262/Me%20262%20A-1/Me262_Lorin.pdf

 

[Avimimus]

excuse me is that on top is a Me 262 A-2a/U2(V555) bomber version ?
if yes, this drawing show were the two MK 108 are installed in it's fuselage !

I suspect those are alternative noses on the Me-262...

 

[sgeorges4]

Or alternative variant.

 

[sgeorges4]

where this drawing come from?

 

[Antonio]

where this drawing come from?

Looks from Justo

 

[Justo Miranda]

Here

 

[sgeorges4]

thank!

 

[pacopepe]

Recent discovery.

DFS built one with the nacelles under the fuselage.
PACOPEPE

 

[sgeorges4]

wher it come from?

 

[pacopepe]

Look the topic named "DFS 262", in the forum-web of what if-modelerswebsite. The model is mine.

But the project isn´t a whiffie. It´s included in a Me 262 book. I´ve put a profile pic in the topìc.

PACOPEPE

 

[sgeorges4]

I found a me 262 with MK 412/112:

http://deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/web/new%20site/frames2/Dokumente.htm

 

[pacopepe]

Very interesting document; and the date: january of 1945.

I´ll try to translate it.

Regards

 

[Michel Van]

rough over view

The Author say that demanded Fl. E 6 IV for possibility installment of MK 412 and MK 112 into 8-262
was made in researchcenter in oberammergau
at hand of project drawings was needed volume of both weapons compare and came to conclusion
The installment of MK 412 and MK 112 is possible in combination of two MK 108

MK 412 and MK 112 will have 40 shells and each MK 108 has 90 shells
although there will be issue with maintenance, the MK 412 & 112 have comply remove from Aircraft.

Notes on Machine canons
MK 108 was a 30×90RB mm caliber autocannon using ammunition with various shells, including practice, armor-piercing, high-explosive and incendiary.
Rate of fire 660 rounds/min, Muzzle velocity 540 m/s, length 1075 mm, weight 58 kg

MK 112 was a 55×175RB mm caliber autocannon develop out the MK 108 (prototypes only)
Rate of fire 300 rounds/min, Muzzle velocity 600 m/s, length 2012 mm, weight 271 kg

MK 412 was a 55 mm caliber auto cannon, a modified 2,7 cm Flak gun.
Rate of fire 160-295/min, Muzzle velocity 580 m/s. length 3095 mm, weight 190~278 kg

source
Die deutsche Luftrüstung 1933–1945 volume 4, by Heinz J. Nowarra. page 129-130

 

[pacopepe]

Thanks,

PACOPEPE

 

[GTX]

Installment of MK 412 and/or MK 112 in combination of two MK 108 = quite some firepower (One 55mm + two 30mm). Yikes!!

 

[Justo Miranda]

MK 108 info

 

[Justo Miranda]

MK 112 info

 

[Justo Miranda]

MK 412 info

 

[sgeorges4]

is the A2/U2 variant can be considered as a luft'46? Because we just have two proto on this variant(the V484 and V555):

the source are: http://www.48specialmodels.com/d-produkte/d-48-m4.html
http://www.fliegerrevuex.aero/neue-mistel-projekte-der-luftwaffe-1945/
The picture are from https://www.google.fr/search?rlz=1C1AOHY_frFR713FR713&biw=1680&bih=935&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=0lacWtOfBpGmwQKp077YCw&q=me+262V555&oq=me+262V555&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3005.3005.0.3394.1.1.0.0.0.0.280.280.2-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.5fODoXmXFwM