MBDA Germany JFS-M (Joint Fire Support Missile)

[muttbutt]

Google translation

MBDA Germany and the two wholly-owned subsidiaries TDW and Bayern Chemie provided information about new industrial partnerships and the use of new technologies for projects such as FCAS, rocket artillery, air defense, space travel and firing systems in a virtual trade press briefing today.
Among other things, details about the Joint Fire Support Missile (JFS-M) and guided missile enforcers were announced.



JFS-M

MBDA announced that yesterday a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) was signed with Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) on cooperation within the framework of the future "System Indirect Fire" of the Bundeswehr. "We are in talks with other partners," said Guido Brendler, Head of Sales and Marketing at MBDA Germany.



According to MBDA, the aim of the cooperation is “the development and implementation of guided missiles with a long range for artillery systems of the Bundeswehr.” The aim is to use system platforms such as MARS II / MLRS and existing Command & Control (C2) systems that are already in use in the Bundeswehr . “MBDA and KMW see this MoU as a starting point to help shape the future of German artillery together. Cooperation with other companies that want to contribute their expertise is expressly desired, ”said the companies in a joint press release.


Functional principle of the JFS-M based on an exemplary mission. (Video: MBDA, KMW and ESG)With the Joint Fire Support Missile, MBDA has only recently presented a concept that meets both the army's demands for a modern, long-range weapon and consistently continues the joint idea of the armed forces.
By using the JFS-M in conjunction with artillery systems, the armed forces should be able to achieve a precise effect at a distance of up to 499 kilometers. "MBDA and KMW have know-how and many years of experience in the areas of stand-off weapons and system platforms (MARS II / MLRS)," said the company. When designing the JFS-M, tried and tested systems and subsystems as well as new technologies are used. According to information from MBDA, components used by the Bundeswehr are taken into account in the design. “In addition, the latest technologies such as interference-free GPS navigation, 3D flight planning and image-based navigation sensors are used.The target fight is supported by artificial intelligence for the automatic target recognition and identification (Automated Target Recognition and Identification) ”, so the company.
According to a KMW representative during the presentation, investigations had shown that both the MARS II rocket artillery system used in the Bundeswehr and other tracked or wheeled vehicles, such as the Boxer or an IVECO truck with a protected cabin, are basically suitable as carrier platforms would. Up to three JFS-M can be accommodated in a standardized rocket pod container. Since the MARS can accommodate two such pods, a mixed armament of the system - three JFS-M and, for example, six GMLRS missiles - can be ammunitioned as a combat load.
The next step would be to commission the Bundeswehr to implement this new type of active agent for artillery. According to the company, an operational capability of the JFS-M "a few years after the contract was signed" would be realistic

MBDA präsentiert neue Details zum Enforcer und der Joint Fire Support Missile

MBDA Deutschland hat im Zuge eines virtuell abgehaltenen Fachpressebriefings unter anderem neue Details zur Joint Fire Support-Missile (JFS-M) sowie dem Lenkflugkörper Enforcer bekanntgegeben.

soldat-und-technik.de

 

[DWG]

MBDA said: "at a distance of up to 499 kilometers"

'Of course we wouldn't think for a minute of violating the MTCR'.

I do wonder just how many similar range limitations will suddenly turn out to be entirely artificial, and have an off-switch, in time of war.

ETA: Those Leopards appear to be firing blind, given the forest there doesn't appear to be any clear line of sight to range the targets with laser or track them optically. It would be just about doable with sufficiently accurate positions on the target and known own position, but I'm not sure it's a situation that would occur often enough to be worth having a specific capability added into the fire control system.

 

[TomcatViP]

I don't understand their casing arrangement... Why not a symmetrical layout?! They would pack 4 missiles instead of only 3.

 

[DWG]

The problem they've got is the fuselage is just slightly over half the pod deep, so they can't fit one above another. Why on earth they haven't redesigned the fuselage I don't know. And if you look closely the two lower missiles don't have their lower fins folded the same way as the upper one, or possibly at all, they may just have been cut off on the printer.

On top of which, if you look closely at the pod on the ground, I'm pretty certain they're showing two missiles in the upper layer. The whole thing looks thrown together in a hurry - I'd guess to suit an existing MBDA design to a KMW manufactured launcher when they announced the teaming. OTOH MLRS pods have to have been the obvious launcher from day 1.

 

[timmymagic]

Is it just me or is JSF-M a clear sibling to the MBDA Remote Carrier's that have been exhibited for SCAF? In particular the Remote Carrier 200?

If so...it gives a clear indication of Remote Carrier 200's range....over 500km....

 

[Forest Green]

MBDA said: "at a distance of up to 499 kilometers"

'Of course we wouldn't think for a minute of violating the MTCR'.

MTCR is 300km. 500km is INF, but that is gone now.

 

[timmymagic]

Is it just me or is JSF-M a clear sibling to the MBDA Remote Carrier's that have been exhibited for SCAF? In particular the Remote Carrier 200?

If so...it gives a clear indication of Remote Carrier 200's range....over 500km....

Turns out I was wrong....the basis of the JFS-M is actually the Remote Carrier 100...which now makes me wonder what range the 200 has...

 

[TomcatViP]

In the picture above, images of the subsonic and supersonic missiles are probably interverted.

 

[flateric]

They are from MBDA media portal

 

[TomS]

They are from MBDA media portal

Yes. Here: https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/mbda-unveils-its-vision-of-future-air-systems/

Scroll through the individual images at the bottom of the page, though, and they have the subsonic and supersonic ones correct.

 

[Forest Green]

The Joint Fire Support Missile: an MLRS-launched cruise missile by MBDA - EDR Magazine

Overcoming opponent’s A2/AD threat is the key issue for western armies. Aimed at denying freedom of movement to air assets

www.edrmagazine.eu

The JFS-M body is about 2,600 mm long and has a diameter of approximately 290 mm; in fact speaking of diameter is incorrect, as its section is far from being circular, the shape being dictated by stealth considerations. Two rear folding wings are fitted on top of the fuselage, wingspan is around 1.5 meters, while a cruciform empennage is located at the rear, the fins angled 45° from the vertical and horizontal planes; the rudder system is derived from that of the Marte missile. At launch the JFS-M is accelerated by a booster that brings it to the minimum sustainement speed, and then falls leaving the propulsion responsibility to the turbojet engine located at the rear, with the fuel tank ahead of it, close to the centre of gravity. The turbojet engine will be provided by an Eastern European company, which was not identified, while for the booster MBDA is still looking at existing solutions, by its usual provider Bayern-Chemie, a subsidiary of MBDA, or other third parties, in order to avoid the development of an ad-hoc booster.

The JFS-M take-off-weight is between 250-300 kg, its speed varying between Mach 0.5 and Mach 0.9 (600 to 1,000 km/h), which means that the missile at maximum speed would take roughly half an hour to reach a target at the maximum range of 499 km, the limit of the aforementioned INF treaty being 500 km. The airframe design is nearly frozen, according to Mr. Goller; “we developed and designed it,” he adds, “but manufacturing doesn’t fall within MBDA’s competencies, therefore a subcontractor will be selected for production.”

 

[timmymagic]

"The turbojet engine will be provided by an Eastern European company, which was not identified"

Think you can pretty much guarantee that its PBS Velka Bites in the Czech Republic.

PBS - Many forms of precision engineering

Hitech products and technology..

www.pbs.cz

Think a lot is going to hinge on how cheap JFS-M is....

If its substantially cheaper than PrSM (currently PrSM is $1.5m a copy, but thats Low Rate Initial Production price, always dramatically higher than Full Rate Production pricing) then it will make a mark. If it has a Turbojet in there won't be any change from $80k from propulsion alone. If they can keep the total cost around $200k in todays money then it might get some business. If its $500k per copy then PrSM will clean up.

Interesting if the magical 499km range gets an increase in due course like PrSM has....

 

[Voltzz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663543857815113730

View: https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1663543857815113730

Joint Fire Support Missile from ⁦@MBDAGroup⁩. Ground or air launched. Range up to 499 km. Active / Passive guidance. Terrain conforming flight pattern. Modular payload with 80 kg warhead. Aims to be notably less expensive than PrSM.

 

[Voltzz]

I stumbled upon two MBDA articles (from 2014 and 2016) in a German artillery magazine, describing earlier iterations of the Joint Fire Support Missile concept. The two concept images shown, differ significantly in configuration, but both are notably smaller then the modern JFS-M with the size of the 2014 concept being closer to an ATGM.

 

[Voltzz]

I stumbled upon two MBDA articles (from 2014 and 2016) in a German artillery magazine, describing earlier iterations of the Joint Fire Support Missile concept. The two concept images shown, differ significantly in configuration, but both are notably smaller then the modern JFS-M with the size of the 2014 concept being closer to an ATGM.

The missile in the 2014 concept picture seems to be the early version of the EMM 'European Modular Missile' which seems to have its origin in a PARS 3 SAL version (later versions of the EMM were instead based on the french MMP/MHT family)

 

[Voltzz]

"The turbojet engine will be provided by an Eastern European company, which was not identified"

Think you can pretty much guarantee that its PBS Velka Bites in the Czech Republic.

The PBS stand in Paris has an image of a cruise missile looking very similar to JFS-M in the background

 

[TomS]

The PBS stand in Paris has an image of a cruise missile looking very similar to JFS-M in the background

But with suspension lugs, implying air launch rather than canister/surface launch.

 

[timmymagic]

But with suspension lugs, implying air launch rather than canister/surface launch.

In that guise its the Remote Carrier 200 concept from MBDA.

 

[Voltzz]

The PBS stand in Paris has an image of a cruise missile looking very similar to JFS-M in the background

Found some more info and some better pictures.
This seems to be a more or less generic PBS concept for an attritable air system (remote-carrier) to showcase their new PBS TJ200 turbojet engine. In the concept images the front half looks very different from the JFS-M but the back still looks remarkably similar.

 

[kqcke for you]

Just tought how mutch JFS-M could do more if they get adapted to the max length of the Puls MLRS. Now this would be interresting if germany buys it (just like JFS-M). Maybe around 1.75m long booster with a 3.25m missile. Maybe with Puls one could see the 3 missiles per pod again.

 

[kqcke for you]

Guys what do we know about the warhead? If i remember it right it was some multirole thing like Brimstone's

 

[armen]

The missile in the 2014 concept picture seems to be the early version of the EMM 'European Modular Missile' which seems to have its origin in a PARS 3 SAL version (later versions of the EMM were instead based on the french MMP/MHT family)

have any more info on this?

 

[Hydroman]

Yes. Here: https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/mbda-unveils-its-vision-of-future-air-systems/

Scroll through the individual images at the bottom of the page, though, and they have the subsonic and supersonic ones correct.

The subsonic missile has a hint of TSSAM features.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Deleted a bunch of off-topic posts.

 

[timmymagic]

So is this the new design for JFS-M? Now called RCM² (might need adding to the thread title). Added to the SCAF section already but not here.

This seems to unify, to a degree, the Remote Carrier design with JFS-M. But also add a potential VL launch option as a long range 'effector'. Worth noting that pylon launch from aircraft is specifically not mentioned, which is odd. And that the RCM² being launched from the M270 appears to show capacity for 4 missiles per pod (8 missiles total on M270), whereas before JFS-M had gone down to 3 missiles per pod (despite being seen with 4 missiles originally...).

All rather confusing....MBDA Deutschland can't be looking to do JFS-M, RCM², Remote Carrier 100 and Remote Carrier 200 all together can they??? Pulling them all together from 1 common missile body would surely be sensible. With Diehl looking to develop Feanix as well....and thats before we get to Taurus EVO....let alone ELSA...

There is going to have to be some serious consolidation across the long/longer range strike/effectors piece in Europe....LPS, Thundart, LRAE, ELSA, FCASW, Feanix, RCM², Taurus EVO etc etc....and thats barely scratching the surface...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1861341374311997555

View: https://x.com/MBDADeutschland/status/1861341374311997555?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1861341374311997555%7Ctwgr%5E9ec0b9dd543a2f4f443e9969edf8fb05240318e2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.secretprojects.co.uk%2Fthreads%2Ffrance-germany-spain-future-combat-air-system-fcas-scaf-fsac.29201%2Fpage-33


Google Translation
New concept from MBDA Germany. In addition to #TAURUS RCM² will reinforce the team in the future.A special feature: RCM² can be fired from combat and transport aircraft as well as from frigates and land vehicles.

TWZ article..

This Is MBDA’s Latest Vision For Its Cruise Missile-Like RCM² ‘Remote Carrier’

Somewhere between a missile and a drone, the remote carrier has been shown launching from air, land, and sea platforms. Somewhere between a missile and a drone, the remote carrier has been shown launching from air, land, and sea platforms.

www.twz.com

 

[kqcke for you]

So is this the new design for JFS-M? Now called RCM² (might need adding to the thread title). Added to the SCAF section already but not here.

This seems to unify, to a degree, the Remote Carrier design with JFS-M. But also add a potential VL launch option as a long range 'effector'. Worth noting that pylon launch from aircraft is specifically not mentioned, which is odd. And that the RCM² being launched from the M270 appears to show capacity for 4 missiles per pod (8 missiles total on M270), whereas before JFS-M had gone down to 3 missiles per pod (despite being seen with 4 missiles originally...).

2 in the latest iteration/ show. The whole VLS idea sounds stupid to me as most user have limited arsenal and deck space is a mutch simpler solution (ITAR free) and easier to refit. F-125 for example could probaly take RCM² right next to the Harpoon (later NSM's) without mutch work.

All rather confusing....MBDA Deutschland can't be looking to do JFS-M, RCM², Remote Carrier 100 and Remote Carrier 200 all together can they??? Pulling them all together from 1 common missile body would surely be sensible. With Diehl looking to develop Feanix as well....and thats before we get to Taurus EVO....let alone ELSA...

Yeah i think they plan to put JFS-M and Remote Carrier 100 together under RCM² as there new offer. Remote Carrier 200 is still open but maybe they offer a different design here or its already established to the company's that one can only do 1 Remote Carrier.

There is going to have to be some serious consolidation across the long/longer range strike/effectors piece in Europe....LPS, Thundart, LRAE, ELSA, FCASW, Feanix, RCM², Taurus EVO etc etc....and thats barely scratching the surface...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1861341374311997555

View: https://x.com/MBDADeutschland/status/1861341374311997555?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1861341374311997555%7Ctwgr%5E9ec0b9dd543a2f4f443e9969edf8fb05240318e2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.secretprojects.co.uk%2Fthreads%2Ffrance-germany-spain-future-combat-air-system-fcas-scaf-fsac.29201%2Fpage-33


Google Translation
New concept from MBDA Germany. In addition to #TAURUS RCM² will reinforce the team in the future.A special feature: RCM² can be fired from combat and transport aircraft as well as from frigates and land vehicles.

TWZ article..

This Is MBDA’s Latest Vision For Its Cruise Missile-Like RCM² ‘Remote Carrier’

Somewhere between a missile and a drone, the remote carrier has been shown launching from air, land, and sea platforms. Somewhere between a missile and a drone, the remote carrier has been shown launching from air, land, and sea platforms.

www.twz.com

 

[timmymagic]

2 in the latest iteration/ show. The whole VLS idea sounds stupid to me as most user have limited arsenal and deck space is a mutch simpler solution (ITAR free) and easier to refit. F-125 for example could probaly take RCM² right next to the Harpoon (later NSM's) without mutch work.

From the image it appears there is space for 4 per pod with the open section following launch visible.

I have to say integrating non-US weapons to Mk.41 still gets proposed...but doesn't really seem to go anywhere (with the exception of the non-exportable Type 07). We'll find out soon enough though with CAMM and FC/ASW....the sensible move for Europe would be the new Sylver A70NG that Italy is looking at...then give US manufacturers a headache to compete...

 

[kqcke for you]

From the image it appears there is space for 4 per pod with the open section following launch visible.

What i meant was JFS-M which was from 2022 onwards only 2 missiles per pod like PrSM.

I have to say integrating non-US weapons to Mk.41 still gets proposed...but doesn't really seem to go anywhere (with the exception of the non-exportable Type 07). We'll find out soon enough though with CAMM and FC/ASW....the sensible move for Europe would be the new Sylver A70NG that Italy is looking at...then give US manufacturers a headache to compete...

Yeah and then for something like this. I mean it doenst have the capabilitys of a Tomahawk but we use that valuable space of the VLS for it? Sry but one can fit a good load (4-8) in an deck launcher with smaller dimensions than one of NSM.

 

[kqcke for you]

What i meant was JFS-M which was from 2022 onwards only 2 missiles per pod like PrSM.

Yeah and then for something like this. I mean it doenst have the capabilitys of a Tomahawk but we use that valuable space of the VLS for it? Sry but one can fit a good load (4-8) in an deck launcher with smaller dimensions than one of NSM.

To be honest 4 rcm² per MFOM Pod also Sounds doubtful. RCM² is <4m and 340kf without booster which means it already takes most of the length. Where is the booster supposed to fit? I mean Himars is can take longer Pods with modifications but M270/Mars? Don't remember that and even then 4 missiles mean there quite small. With 500km range the warhead is probaly smaller than JFS-M's. We only got a 36 cm in height and it can be 52,5cm wide.

 

[kqcke for you]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1861823302777639029

View: https://x.com/MBDADeutschland/status/1861823302777639029