martinletts's Horten Ho XVIII artwork

[martinletts]

Good evening.

My next project is what I believe to be designated the Horten Ho XVIII B-2 but there does seem to be some confusion over the actual designation. The aircraft has this number in Luftwaffe Secret Projects: Strategic Bombers 1935-1945 and is described as the final Luftwaffe jet bomber project (sketch attached - source unknown). However in Secret Projects: Flying Wings and Tailless Aircraft a similar (or the same design) is referred to as Ho XVIII A. Does anyone know which is correct.

Also, Does anyone know if any other drawings of this aircraft exist, any info would be most welcome.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Flitzer]

Hi Martin.

I've just checked Dan's Luft 46 site and found XVlll A and XVlll B, but both are big multi jet designs.

I'll check what refs I have at home this evening.

Good hunting.
P

 

[martinletts]

Hi Peter.

Hope you are well.

The two illustrated on L46 are both different to the one with the vertical fin. I'm wondering if the 'B-2' variant is a further development on the 'B' - there sees to be at lest three Ho XVIIIs! ON further investigation it seems the brothers Horten weren't happy with some RLM meddling with their design so they did a bit of re-configuring themselves - my dillema is which was the version with the fin - the RLM's or the Horten boys.

It isn't going to stop me modelling the version in the sketch - its just nice to give something it's proper name (and maybe give me an excuse to buy another aeroplane book if I can get some reading references!)

If you do happen to come accross anything that might shed a light - that would be great.

Thanks.

 

[Vietcong]

I think these pics may useful for you.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Please see also http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4973.0/highlight,horten%20xviii.html

 

[richard]

The two scans are from the Herwig/Rode book (strategic bombers 1935/45) and show the Ho XVIII B-2 (March 1945).

So far I know ,the Ho XVIII A was tailess ,and all the German sources since the late fifties give the Ho XVIII B-2 designation fot the tailed Ho XVIII .

David Myhra writes ,it was to be built by Junkers (Ju Ef 140 ),but I don't consider his book as very reliable ...
Btw EF 140 was built in Soviet Union ,but this was a Ju 287 derivative .

 

[Justo Miranda]

Horten Ho VIII TL or Ho XVIII preliminary project

 

[Justo Miranda]

Horten Ho XVIII A

 

[Justo Miranda]

Horten/Junkers Ho XVIII B

 

[Justo Miranda]

Additional info

 

[Justo Miranda]

Horten Ho VIII structure

 

[martinletts]

Wow! Thanks Justo, Richard et al - that's about as comprehensive a reply as I could have hoped for!

It seems consensus has it that the version with the tail fin is the XVIII B-2. There seems to be some confusion even in published literature, perhaps 'retro-naming' things didn't help: after all they were secret for quite a while during the cold war so any subterfuge would only serve to help cover things up a bit more.

This is all excellent research material - thanks again gentlemen.

 

[Flitzer]

Hi Martin
I raided my meager files and didn't find anything that has not already been posted.

Good hunting
P

 

[martinletts]

Thanks for looking anyway Peter. Much appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[lark]

As far as I saw from several sources,including 'Nurflügel' by one of the Horten brothers
Justo painted the complete picture about the Ho-XVIII...

 

[Justo Miranda]

By request of Michel Van
some Horten projects of passenger and cargo planes...Post-1

 

[Justo Miranda]

some Horten projects of passenger and cargo planes...Post-2

 

[Michel Van]

Wounderfull picture
on gigant Horten Ho XVIII (1944) and Ho XVIII/1 (1945)
howmuch cargo and Wat was the Range ?

 

[Justo Miranda]

Unknown to me ... :-\

 

[Michel Van]

Unknown to me ... :-\

after big Googel-fu i found this

Ho VIII 1944

wingspan: 80 meter !
length: 32,0 m
height: 7,0 m
Wingsurface: 600 m²
Empty weight: 45000 kg
Takeoff weight: 120.000 kg

60 passengers (or 70 tons cargo?)
powered by six Jumo 222 pusher engines or Turboprops
range was estimated to be 20000 km (with speed 350km/h)

Source:
Nowarra Heinz J.ie Deutsche Luftrüstung 1933-1945,
Bernard & Graeffe Verlag, Koblenz 1993,
ISBN 3-7637-5464-4

after that source
they planed a 1:2 model (the Ho VIII/1 1945 ?)
wingspan: 40 meter
with six Argus As 10 C pusher engine
crew of 3 men
The completion of the model was scheduled for July 1945.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_H_VIII

 

[martinletts]

This is top-notch stuff, thanks for sharing this.

The huge transporter caught my eye too. A 'flying wind-tunnel' according to some sources.

Thanks again, I'm starting to change my mind about my next project!

 

[moin1900]

Hi everybody

I saw a interesting drawing of the EF-140/Ho XVIIIB-2 in one of Friedrich Georgs books.
I know Friedrich Georg is not a good source. But maybe we can discuss this drawing ?
It shows the EF-140/Ho XVIIIB-2 with only 4 turbojets ! Normal are 6 turbojets.

Someone knows more about this drawing ? The origin ?
Are there more such drawings of the EF-140/Ho XVIIIB-2 ?
What about the turbojets ? Is it a original drawing ?

The drawing
http://books.google.com/books?id=PdMhAQAAIAAJ&q=EF-140&dq=EF-140&hl=de&ei=-D9tTLLVC4SQjAf7uoz7CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA

Some pictures of the EF-140/Ho XVIIIB-2
http://www.oxygino.com/site/?p=894
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amphalon/2155519718/in/set-72157603608961314/

Maybe someone can help ?
Thanks a lot in advance and
Many greetings

 

[martinletts]

Hi.

That's interesting. I'd seen Gino Marcomini's visual (I'm always impressed by his work) although if I was to be picky I did think the construction was of tubular steel and ply rather than metal panels (please correct me if I'm wrong).

The 4-engined version is new to me (I have not seen any reference to it as yet) may be it is either a mistake or possibly an alternative put forward by either the Hortens or the committee of the other manufacturers that all had a dabble in this project. From what I understand it did ping-pong a bit between various people.

I'm coming to the end of the modelling process of this aircraft and am looking at camo and colour-schemes, if anyone can suggest anything? At the moment I have it down as KG 200 as they seemed to be involved in covert and out of the ordinary missions, such as the unsubstantiated '12 miles from New York' mission and as the XVIII B2 was intended as an Amerika Bomber I thought that would tie up.

 

[moin1900]

Hi everybody

Tubular steel and ply.

Fantasy, mistake or alternative ? I think the 4-engined version is only one of the ?many? alternatives.
I think the definitive version of the EF-140/HO XVIIIB-2 should use 6 engines.
Friedrich Georgs information about the EF-140/HO XVIIIB-2 comes from David Myhras Book "Secret Aircraft Designs of the Third Reich".
Maybe this is the source of the 4-engined EF-140/Ho XVIIIB-2 drawing ?
Maybe someone knows the book "Secret Aircraft Designs of the Third Reich" and can help us ? Please. I hope we find the origin of this drawing.

Maybe a special night-camo ?

Thanks in advance and
Many greetings

 

[edwest4]

As I'm sure many know, many variants existed for other German aircraft designs, like the Ta-183. I think the key here is looking at engine type and thrust. According to Reimar Horten in Nurfluegel, construction on this aircraft was begun in an underground complex in Kahla, Thuringia.

 

[Kiwiguy]

Hi Ed,

Kalha was built for Me-262 production. I guess you can't speak for Reimar Horten, but I'm curious how they would get it out the door much less up the elevator to the airfield on top of that hill. Did Horton give any further clues please?

 

[martinletts]

Hi.

Thought you might like to see a couple of examples of what I did with the info you all kindly supplied.

more at http://www.xplanes3d.com/

This might be the last one I do for a while (too many other pressing projects; it's a rewarding subject - but not financially!)

Thanks again everyone.

 

[airman]

Hi.

Thought you might like to see a couple of examples of what I did with the info you all kindly supplied.

more at http://www.xplanes3d.com/

This might be the last one I do for a while (too many other pressing projects; it's a rewarding subject - but not financially!)

Thanks again everyone.

beatiful !

 

[Antonio]

Thought you might like to see a couple of examples of what I did with the info you all kindly supplied

breathtaking!

 

[Johnbr]

Love your work.

 

[shockonlip]

Agree with previous kudos!

Encouragement Encouragement Encouragement!

 

[martinletts]

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement gentlemen.

Much appreciated.

 

[bada]

nice, as always!

a few questions if i may:

- what wing profile did you used, the one from the Ho-8?

- the front turret, is it a design of you own? it looks only to be able to move up/down?

- why only a 1wheel front landing gear? because of the horten's scavenger style (he 177 here we comes again ;D ), or only by personnal choice?

thanks

 

[martinletts]

Hi.

The wing profile was based loosely on earlier Horten models.

The nose turret: there are few drawings which identifies the type (a couple in the Secret Projects series). I used some ref. material + artistic licence.

The nose wheel based on the tubular steel design for Ho 229. Yes I am aware that scavenged parts were used (Junkers 287 I believe) - but that's a bit random. The Ho 229 had bespoke undercarriage.

With these things so little hard evidence or drawings exist that one has to 'import' a bit of contemporary DNA (a lot of Luftwaffe projects were only verbally recounted by interviewees some time after the war). If I do do that then I try my best to keep to the 'spirt' of the design.

Cheers.

 

[renax]

The Horten XVIIIa 1/72 kit is now available,
I have completely retooled the old sharkit fernbomber kit;

kit page:
http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/Ho-XVIII/HoXVIII.htm

 

[gery]

D.hur viewpoint....

 

[renax]

old boxart study for Horten XVIII kit
http://renax-sharkit.blogspot.fr/search/label/Luft%2046