Mars Sample Return

Flyaway

Flyaway

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While neither NASA nor the European Space Agency has yet to give formal approval, or funding, for missions to return samples from Mars, both agencies are taking steps to refine plans for what those missions will be.

Those plans, discussed at a Mars science conference and working group meeting last week, would involve two launches in 2026 to send spacecraft to fetch samples collected by NASA’s Mars 2020 rover and return them to Earth in 2031.
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spacenews.com

Mars sample return mission plans begin to take shape

While neither NASA nor ESA has yet to give formal approval, or funding, for missions to return samples from Mars, both agencies are taking steps to refine plans for what those missions will be.
spacenews.com spacenews.com
 
Grey Havoc said:
We could have had a sample return mission as far back as the 1970s.
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I thought the claim is we didn’t have the technologies and sufficient info about Mars to do it back then.
 
Nope. There was a plan in the early 1970s (around 1974/75 I think) to use a Viking lander as the basis for a follow up mission to Viking 1 and 2 that would have returned soil samples to earth via a rocket to a orbiter that would have returned to earth, where the samples would have in turn been delivered via re-entry capsule. NASA may have been planning mid-air retrieval for that phase but I'm not sure.

There was even earlier plans for sample return missions on both sides of the Iron Curtain. For example from 1966 (as part of a manned Mars flyby intended to be launched in September 1975):
The mission profile involved a single Saturn V launch with an Apollo Command Service Module, the flyby spacecraft, and an MS-IVB stage. The MS-IVB was a modification of the basic S-IVB, with stretched tanks and more internal foam insulation, allowing the stage to remain for sixty hours in low earth orbit before firing. The CSM, with four crew, would undock from the stack, transpose, and dock with the flyby spacecraft.
The flyby spacecraft itself consisted, from fore to aft, of a Mid-Course Propulsion Module with four engines; an Earth Entry Module (a modified Apollo CM, which would also serve as a radiation shelter); and a two-level Mission Module, 4.27 m in diameter, providing living quarters on level 1, and a control console and wardroom on level 2. Exterior to the MM would be a manipulator arm; a biology lab; a 1-m diameter telescope; an airlock for spacewalks equipped with a the CSM docking unit; and a 5.8 m diameter antenna. 185 square meters of solar panels would produce 22 kW at earth and 8.5 kW at Mars and 4.5 kW in the asteroid belt.

The mission scenario involved four Saturn V launches. Launch 1 would orbit the crew and the spacecraft, and launches 2 to 4 would place three MS-IVB's into earth orbit. In order to make this many launches in the short 60 hour storage life of the MS-IVB's, a third Saturn V launch pad, LC-39C, would have to built at the Kennedy Space Center. The Apollo CSM would power the spacecraft to a series of rendezvous and docking maneuvers. After all three MS-IVB stages had been docked in tandem, the Apollo CSM would undock and redock with the side airlock port. Following checkout and testing, the temporary forward docking structure and the Apollo CSM would be jettisoned.

The three stages would be fired in sequence to send the spacecraft toward Mars. This would all have to occur in a launch window extending from 5 September to October 1975. The coast to Mars would take 130 days, with flyby occurring between 23 January and 4 February 1976.

Three 45 kg impact probes, a 4500 kg orbiter, a 567 kg lander, and a 5450 kg Mars Surface Sample Returner would be released toward Mars. The MSSR would return a 1 kg sample to the spacecraft, where it would be studied during the coast back to earth.

The MSSR would be an unmanned versions of the FLEM Mars flyby lander. MSSR would be released weeks before the flyby, land, but then rocket off the Martian surface with the sample 5 minutes after closest approach of the flyby spacecraft. 17 minutes later it would be in solar orbit, a few kilometers ahead of the flyby spacecraft. The flyby would rendezvous with it and snare it with a boom-mounted docking ring, which would then move it to the lateral docking port. The return coast would take the crew out into the asteroid belt, allowing studies to be made there, before returning to earth on 18 July 1977.
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JAG Mars Flyby 1966

JAG Mars Flyby 1966
astronautix.com astronautix.com

EDIT:

FLEM

FLEM
www.astronautix.com www.astronautix.com
 
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gizmodo.com

NASA Requests Funding for Audacious Plan to Bring Martian Soil to Earth

NASA is officially asking Congress to fund a Mars sample-return project, in what would be one of the most complex missions ever attempted by the space
gizmodo.com gizmodo.com
hzxjhiqebphytiimolak.jpg

ORIGINAL CAPTION: The Martian Ascent Vehicle blasting off with its cargo. Image: NASA/JPL-Caltech
 
Grey Havoc said:
www.nasaspaceflight.com

America's Next Mars Rover "Perseverance" to Pave Way for Human Exploration - NASASpaceFlight.com

NASA has named its Mars 2020 rover, “Perseverance,” as it prepares for launch this summer.…
www.nasaspaceflight.com www.nasaspaceflight.com
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A future mission to return samples of Martian rock and soil is currently under consideration by NASA, in partnership with the European Space Agency. Perseverance will identify and collect samples, and leave them at a designated location on the Martian surface in sealed tubes. A new spacecraft would land on the Martian surface and act as a launch facility to return the sample to Earth for in-depth analysis. This mission is currently in the conceptual phase.
mars-ascent.jpg

Concept render of a rock and soil sample launching from Mars to Earth - via NASA/JPL-Caltech
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The proposed schedule would be to launch the sample return lander in 2026. It would house the sample ascent rocket and European built sample fetch rover which would recover the samples from the JPL 2020 Rover. A European built orbital return vehicle would then take the samples back to Earth.

This schedule seems highly compressed for a typical NASA project of this scale ($7Billion). I wonder if they are trying to goose the schedule so the notion of just waiting to see if Starship succeeds would negate the program's justification.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/04/20/nasa-narrows-design-for-rocket-to-launch-samples-off-of-mars/
With two launches from Earth scheduled for 2026, NASA and ESA will send to Mars a stationary landing platform with the MAV, a mobile robot to fetch soil samples collected by NASA’s Perseverance rover, and an Earth Return Orbiter to bring the specimens back home
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I guess the sample "freshness" would not be a concern.

Would be interesting tho to see the sample return capsule design. I would guess that it would have considerable protection against space radiation... so The sample will have the same level of background radiation as it was when it's still part of Mars Surface.
 
Grey Havoc said:
Nope. There was a plan in the early 1970s (around 1974/75 I think) to use a Viking lander as the basis for a follow up mission to Viking 1 and 2 that would have returned soil samples to earth via a rocket to a orbiter that would have returned to earth, where the samples would have in turn been delivered via re-entry capsule. NASA may have been planning mid-air retrieval for that phase but I'm not sure.
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Here's the initial proposal, thanks to Graham1973.
 
Flyaway said:
www.nasa.gov

NASA Moves Forward with Campaign to Return Mars Samples to Earth - NASA

NASA and ESA (European Space Agency) are moving to the next phase in a campaign to deepen understanding of whether life ever existed on Mars and, in turn,
www.nasa.gov www.nasa.gov
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Good news for the Mars Sample Return mission. Perseverance will land in the new year, so both NASA and ESA will have to move a lot faster than they are currently doing to get the samples back to Earth before the mid-decade.
 
With SpaceX roaring ahead, it seems foolhardy to invest in Mars Sample Return at this point. At this point, you should be sizing your mass budget for Falcon Heavy, or even Starship.
 
chimeric oncogene said:
With SpaceX roaring ahead, it seems foolhardy to invest in Mars Sample Return at this point. At this point, you should be sizing your mass budget for Falcon Heavy, or even Starship.
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You’ve not been suckered in by ‘Elon time’ have you.
 
Flyaway said:
chimeric oncogene said:
With SpaceX roaring ahead, it seems foolhardy to invest in Mars Sample Return at this point. At this point, you should be sizing your mass budget for Falcon Heavy, or even Starship.
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You’ve not been suckered in by ‘Elon time’ have you.
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Yeah, but why accelerate the schedule five years when you can get a lot more done in ten, at lower cost?

Or is a negative Mars Sample Return sample needed to determine bioprotection levels?
 
What is really interesting with present MSR plan is the use of the so called "cache rover".
One rover travel across Mars landscape, collect samples, and later bring them back to a Earth return vehicle.

Now, in the days of Ye-8-5, Lunas and Lunokhods, the Soviets had a very similar plan for the Moon, called Sparka.

www.airspacemag.com

The Other Moon Landings

The Soviets lost the moon race but won a dram of glory with the first robotic craft to roam another world.
www.airspacemag.com www.airspacemag.com

A third Lunokhod was planned, and there was talk of a mission more ambitious and potentially much more rewarding than Lunokhod. Named Sparka, from the Russian word for “pair,” the mission would team a Lunokhod-style rover with a Luna sample-return craft. Roaming the moon, the Sparka rover would pick up samples with a robotic arm, take pictures, and carry its geologic treasures to a waiting sample-return vehicle. With a well-chosen, well-documented collection of samples, Sparka promised a scientific return equalling that of the Apollo landings.

It was not to be. Support for more robotic missions to the moon evaporated as interest shifted to a more distant and mysterious goal: Mars. Already, the Soviets had tried two times to land instruments on the Red Planet without success, and it was public knowledge that the United States was planning its own Mars landings, in a program called Viking. Lunokhod 3 never went to the moon—the rover now sits on display at the Lavochkin Museum in Moscow—and Sparka never made it past the conceptual stage.
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Flyaway said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1539318926252843008
View: https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1539318926252843008


At the NASA PAC meeting, Jeff Gramling says one of the ongoing aspects for the Phase A Mars Sample Return studies is looking at including an Ingenuity-like helicopter on later lander mission to help fetch samples. Plan to complete studies and go into Phase B in early FY2023.
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Interesting to see NASA considering putting another Ingenuity class helicopter on the Mars sample return mission. Cannot wait to see the Mars sample return mission lift off, whenever that will be.
 
Appropriators were also concerned about NASA’s Mars Sample Return campaign, in particular increasing costs of the effort to return samples being cached by the Perseverance rover. Specifically, it requests NASA to provide a report on using helicopters like the Ingenuity helicopter flown with Perseverance to support Mars Sample Return. Using multiple helicopters “could increase redundancy and ensure NASA has a capability to return samples by augmenting the Ingenuity helicopter design to add a sample retrieval capability,” the report states.

NASA officials have been quietly considering the use of helicopters, which have not been part of previous concepts for Mars Sample Return. At a meeting of NASA’s Planetary Science Advisory Committee June 21, Jeff Gramling, Mars Sample Return program director at NASA, said the success of Ingenuity prompted a review of whether it could be used for Mars Sample Return.

“We’ve looked at whether we could take the Ingenuity helicopter design and potentially modify it for us to fly, with the capability to carry samples,” he said. That is part of ongoing Phase A design studies expected to conclude before the end of the fiscal year.
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spacenews.com

House appropriators partially restore funding for planetary defense mission - SpaceNews

House appropriators partially restored funding for a planetary defense mission as part of a spending bill for fiscal year 2023.
spacenews.com spacenews.com
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1598775729520451584
View: https://twitter.com/nasaastrobio/status/1598775729520451584


We’re planning one of our biggest feats ever – bringing Mars samples to Earth – and you can play a part.

@NASA is looking for your feedback on Mars Sample Return in a series of in-person meetings. Find details and updated meeting locations here:
Click to expand...

www.nasa.gov

NASA Invites Public Comment on Plans for Mars Sample Return Campaign - NASA

Editor’s Note: This release was updated Nov. 30, to note that the location of the public meeting in Wendover, Utah, on Tuesday,
www.nasa.gov www.nasa.gov

Nov 22, 2022
RELEASE 22-121

NASA Invites Public Comment on Plans for Mars Sample Return Campaign

Editor’s Note: This release was updated Nov. 30, to note that the location of the public meeting in Wendover, Utah, on Tuesday, Dec. 6, has changed. The time of the meeting remains the same.

Editor's Note: This release was updated on Nov. 23, to further clarify the virtual meetings link will not be active until about 15 minutes before the meetings.

NASA is seeking public comments on a draft environmental impact statement for the agency’s Mars Sample Return (MSR) campaign. Comments are due by Monday, Dec. 19.

Comments can be submitted online, through the mail, or through participation in a series of virtual and in-person meetings. Advanced registration for meeting options, including in-person meetings in Utah, is not required.

Two virtual meetings to discuss the Draft Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement for the campaign will take place on Wednesday, Nov. 30. The first begins at 1 p.m. MST, followed by a second opportunity at 6 p.m. MST. The WebEx link will be activated about 15 minutes before the events begin and will display “room cannot be found” until it is activated. Once live, it will include an option for real-time automated closed captioning. To access audio-only dial 510-210-8882, and use meeting number 901-525-785. Participate online at either time by joining the following link:

Mars Sample Return WebEx

The in-person meetings will be held at 6 p.m. MST on Tuesday, Dec. 6, at the Brinkman Service Club, 352 South Airport Way, Wendover, Utah, and on Wednesday, Dec. 7, at the Clark Planetarium, 110 S 400 W, Salt Lake City, Utah.

All public meetings will include a 15-minute presentation on the purpose of the meetings, the MSR campaign project schedule, opportunities for public involvement, a summary of the proposed action and alternatives, discussion of potential environmental impacts from the proposed action, and an overview of the programmatic approach to National Environmental Policy Act compliance in general, and NASA’s proposed action specifically. The in-person meetings also will include a 45-minute open house before the official public comment portion of the meeting.

Subject matter experts will be available on-site during the open house to answer questions from the public, and to discuss informational posters and distribute related materials about the draft statement and the proposed Mars Sample Return campaign. These materials are also available online.

NASA and ESA (European Space Agency) are planning to use robotic Mars orbiter and lander missions launched in 2027 and 2028 to retrieve samples of rocks and atmosphere being gathered by NASA’s Perseverance rover and return them to Earth. The samples of Mars material, securely isolated inside a robust Earth Entry System using a layered “container within a container” approach, could be brought to Earth in the early 2030s, landing notionally at the Utah Test and Training Range operated by the U.S. Air Force. The Earth Entry System would then be transported to a specialized MSR sample receiving facility.

NASA will consider all comments received during the PEIS public comment period in the subsequent development of the MSR Final Environmental Impact Statement.

In addition to receiving comments during the public meetings, comments may be sent to NASA in the following ways:

Federal e-Rulemaking Portal: Follow the online instructions for submitting comments and include Docket No. NASA-2022-0002. Please note that NASA will post all comments online without changes, including any personal information provided.

By mail to Steve Slaten, NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, 4800 Oak Grove Drive, M/S: 180-801, Pasadena, CA 91109–8099

Additional information on the agency’s National Environmental Policy Act process and the proposed campaign is available online.

-end-
Click to expand...
View: https://youtu.be/t9G36CDLzIg
 
Flyaway said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1598775729520451584
View: https://twitter.com/nasaastrobio/status/1598775729520451584


We’re planning one of our biggest feats ever – bringing Mars samples to Earth – and you can play a part.

@NASA is looking for your feedback on Mars Sample Return in a series of in-person meetings. Find details and updated meeting locations here:
Click to expand...

www.nasa.gov

NASA Invites Public Comment on Plans for Mars Sample Return Campaign - NASA

Editor’s Note: This release was updated Nov. 30, to note that the location of the public meeting in Wendover, Utah, on Tuesday,
www.nasa.gov www.nasa.gov

Nov 22, 2022
RELEASE 22-121

NASA Invites Public Comment on Plans for Mars Sample Return Campaign

Editor’s Note: This release was updated Nov. 30, to note that the location of the public meeting in Wendover, Utah, on Tuesday, Dec. 6, has changed. The time of the meeting remains the same.

Editor's Note: This release was updated on Nov. 23, to further clarify the virtual meetings link will not be active until about 15 minutes before the meetings.

NASA is seeking public comments on a draft environmental impact statement for the agency’s Mars Sample Return (MSR) campaign. Comments are due by Monday, Dec. 19.

Comments can be submitted online, through the mail, or through participation in a series of virtual and in-person meetings. Advanced registration for meeting options, including in-person meetings in Utah, is not required.

Two virtual meetings to discuss the Draft Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement for the campaign will take place on Wednesday, Nov. 30. The first begins at 1 p.m. MST, followed by a second opportunity at 6 p.m. MST. The WebEx link will be activated about 15 minutes before the events begin and will display “room cannot be found” until it is activated. Once live, it will include an option for real-time automated closed captioning. To access audio-only dial 510-210-8882, and use meeting number 901-525-785. Participate online at either time by joining the following link:

Mars Sample Return WebEx

The in-person meetings will be held at 6 p.m. MST on Tuesday, Dec. 6, at the Brinkman Service Club, 352 South Airport Way, Wendover, Utah, and on Wednesday, Dec. 7, at the Clark Planetarium, 110 S 400 W, Salt Lake City, Utah.

All public meetings will include a 15-minute presentation on the purpose of the meetings, the MSR campaign project schedule, opportunities for public involvement, a summary of the proposed action and alternatives, discussion of potential environmental impacts from the proposed action, and an overview of the programmatic approach to National Environmental Policy Act compliance in general, and NASA’s proposed action specifically. The in-person meetings also will include a 45-minute open house before the official public comment portion of the meeting.

Subject matter experts will be available on-site during the open house to answer questions from the public, and to discuss informational posters and distribute related materials about the draft statement and the proposed Mars Sample Return campaign. These materials are also available online.

NASA and ESA (European Space Agency) are planning to use robotic Mars orbiter and lander missions launched in 2027 and 2028 to retrieve samples of rocks and atmosphere being gathered by NASA’s Perseverance rover and return them to Earth. The samples of Mars material, securely isolated inside a robust Earth Entry System using a layered “container within a container” approach, could be brought to Earth in the early 2030s, landing notionally at the Utah Test and Training Range operated by the U.S. Air Force. The Earth Entry System would then be transported to a specialized MSR sample receiving facility.

NASA will consider all comments received during the PEIS public comment period in the subsequent development of the MSR Final Environmental Impact Statement.

In addition to receiving comments during the public meetings, comments may be sent to NASA in the following ways:

Federal e-Rulemaking Portal: Follow the online instructions for submitting comments and include Docket No. NASA-2022-0002. Please note that NASA will post all comments online without changes, including any personal information provided.

By mail to Steve Slaten, NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, 4800 Oak Grove Drive, M/S: 180-801, Pasadena, CA 91109–8099

Additional information on the agency’s National Environmental Policy Act process and the proposed campaign is available online.

-end-
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View: https://youtu.be/t9G36CDLzIg
Click to expand...

An interesting idea to get the public involved in the Mars Sample Return mission, and getting them via public meetings as well.
 

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