Mars Mission Module

[DarkLord]

I am looking for information on the Mars spacecraft that would have carried men to mars as planned for the post Apollo period. The MEM was to have been the Aeronuetronic lifting body from a 1964 paper presented at the AIAA/NASA 3rd Manned Spaceflight Meeting at Houston. The author was Temple W. Newman of Philco Ford.

This design of MEM was to be used on the Orion Nuclear Pulse spacecraft as well as other designs. The Mission Module/spacecraft I am interested in was, I believe, a North American Aviation proposal.

If anyone could help furnish me with illustrations I would be very grateful.

I have attached the only diagram that I have, along with the MEM diagram

 

[flateric]

Is this what you are looking for?

 

[Michel Van]

thanks for PDF

the MMM is from NAA

Philco MEM is also used for the General Electric Mars Mission Study
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5107.0.html

 

[DarkLord]

Thank you Michel Van and Flateric for your replies, especially the RCS layout for the MEM. It is the NAA mission module that I really need information on. The trouble is with the passing years, archives are destroyed or are not available electronically. Thanks again.

 

[flateric]

I'll try to dig some stuff.

 

[OM]

...Pilgrim/Observer done right, obviously.

 

[archipeppe]

Many thanks for this interesting stuff, Darklord!!

 

[flateric]

Well, in 1965 paper from (sic!) Newman we see Philco Aeronutronic Mars fly-by vehicle from EMPIRE study...utilising nuclear injection propulsion and looking very familiar MEM...

 

[flateric]

DarkLord, can you draw some NAA Mission Module project timeframe? Late 60s?

 

[Michel Van]

back to that NAA Mission Module (see picture MMM.jpg)
the Mission module is almost same of a Flyby Mission proposal by NAA

Manned Mars and/or Venus Flyby Vehicle Systems Study Final Briefing Brochure,
SID 65-761-6, A. L. Jones, North American Aviation, Vol. 6 of 6, June 18, 1965.

planned mission
Saturn V launch modified CSM atop MM in low orbit
rendezvous and dock with a separately launched North American Aviation-built S-IIB stage
(also launch in tow parts Tank LOX and Tank Lh2 with engine rendezvous and dock)

after launch to Mars flyby the empty S-IIB stage is separate
crew dock the CSM to MM and move in it
then the CSM is move reeled out by (tethers) to a distance of approximately 150 feet.
The flyby craft and CSM revolve about their center of mass four times per minute to produce one terrestrial gravity.
note that in MMM they use centrifuge like MORL instat

near mars they despin and face aft end of Spacecraft to Mars
and relace allot of probes !
-five Parachuted Atmospheric Probes
-one Soft Landing Probe-1 containing an automated biological laboratory
-one Soft Landing Probe-2 containing three dart-projectile probes, 3 balloon probes, and one television probe
-one Orbiting Astronomical Telescope satellite with a two-stage target planet orbit injection propulsion system
-six Hard Landing Probes
-one Orbiting Environment Monitor probe with a two-stage target planet orbit injection propulsion system
(all probe are stored in docking structure MM and S-IIB)

after fly by they start rotate the spacecraft again
At expedition's end the crew reels in and enters the CSM, and separates the flyby craft.
They then cast off the CSM's drum-shaped Service Module
and enter Earth's atmosphere in the conical Command Module.

modified CSM
Three LM descent engines replace the single Service Propulsion System engine
used in the Apollo CSM.
and carries a radioisotope power system, source of the flyby craft's electricity.

 

[flateric]

Well, Michel, 'almost the same' feels rather overmuch...

 

[Spark]

Well, Michel, 'almost the same' feels rather overmuch...

This may be of interest.
Mars Symposium - NEW DATE

BIS
Speaker(s): Bob Parkinson, Mark Hempsell, Alan Bond
Venue: BIS 27/29 South London Rd, London SW8 1SZ
Start Date: 19/Nov/2008
End Date: 19/Nov/2008
9.30 am 4.30 pm

You have some top people speaking

 

[hesham]

Hi,

and here is a Modular nuclear Mars vehicle.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1967/1967%20-%200504.html

 

[magnus_z]

 

[magnus_z]

 

[Michel Van]

i got more info on this NAA Mars Mission proposal in 1967

the Ship launch mass is around 400 tons
the biggest mass are the three S-IIN (point 7&8 on picture) they launch the Ship to Mars
after that the S-IIN are dropped
at Mars the bi-conical Space ship (point 6) made a Aerodynamic braking into Mars Orbit
with around 7-10 G for Crew of 6 men (sorry this 1960's no woman on board : )

the MEM (point 1) are several Proposals
like the Philco MEM or NAA PEM on basis of a Lifting body.
PEM = Planetary Excursion Module
3-4 men land on Mars while 2-3 remain on board
on end of Mars mission PEM ascent stage dock on Mars ship
after the PEM crew and Mars sample transfer, PEM is dropped

The Mars ship use Lh2/lox Engine (not show on Picture)
push them back to Earth
the fuel is stored in 10 tanks (point 3) around Crew module (point 2)

they got 2 men centrifuge on board for artificial gravity, around Solar stormshelter

near Earth the Crew goes in 6 men Apollo capsule (point 4)
they separate with Earthbreaking stage ( point 5) from Space ship
with use Lh2/lox Engine to reduce reentry speed on that of a Apollo mission.

a Little note on the Crew Module
NAA try to Sell it As Mulit use module begin as Space Station and end
as Crew Module for interplanetary mission

more on this here
Extended Mission Apollo Study
http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/sdoc64ani.jpg
to get here
http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspacesaturn.htm

 

[OM]

...Reminding me more and more of MPC's "Pilgrim/Observer" for some reason.

 

[Michel Van]

...Reminding me more and more of MPC's "Pilgrim/Observer" for some reason.

that idea is from Krafft Ehricke
i think was even Convair Proposal

back to NAA 1967 Mars mission Proposal
here form Scott Lowther Homepage (an to buy there)

while first design is 10 meter ø for Saturn V launch
need this 17 meter ø Spaceship NOVA launcher
an i don't have Idea why the need 14 Astronauts for Mission
of 10 men land on Mars, is this for Mars Surface base personnel ?

and had NAA even a Nova Launcher proposal ?

 

[OM]

an i don't have Idea why the need 14 Astronauts for Mission
of 10 men land on Mars, is this for Mars Surface base personnel ?

...This one's pretty simple. Most, if not all of the big Mars landing proposals called for nearly 24/7 surface activities, with crews divided into anywhere from four to eight-hour shifts. The lower the number of crew, the longer the EVAs. IIRC, with a 4-man crew on one of the uprated Apollo to Mars concepts, a four-man crew would be doing 8-9 hour shifts that were staggered so that there were three crew awake - one or two on EVA - while one slept, Note that these small-crew rotations were intended to be heavily choreographed, with practically every minute of their stay planned in advance with very little initial leeway for the unexpected and/or crew fatigue causing slowdowns and delays. These plans also were, IIRC, worked out in theory before the Skylab 4 "mutiny", which changed the way NASA looks at mission planning.

 

[Boxman]

I think this is the place for this...

I was just perusing through the San Diego Air & Space Museum (SDASM) archives on Flickr, and came across this illustration of a Convair / General Dynamics eight-man capsule, which was posed a few years ago.

The caption for the image describes it as "Title:GD/Astronautics Art Details: Empire Study; Earth Re-Entry Vehicle - 8 Man Date: 02/19/1964." As the caption states, this apparently came about from the Early Manned Planetary-Interplanetary Roundtrip Expeditions (EMPIRE) project/studies.

https://flic.kr/p/NuXSBA

 

[Space Baron]

I am looking for information on the Mars spacecraft that would have carried men to mars as planned for the post Apollo period. The MEM was to have been the Aeronuetronic lifting body from a 1964 paper presented at the AIAA/NASA 3rd Manned Spaceflight Meeting at Houston. The author was Temple W. Newman of Philco Ford.

This design of MEM was to be used on the Orion Nuclear Pulse spacecraft as well as other designs. The Mission Module/spacecraft I am interested in was, I believe, a North American Aviation proposal.

If anyone could help furnish me with illustrations I would be very grateful.

I have attached the only diagram that I have, along with the MEM diagram

On the nasa web. The MEM tests and design North American Rockwell.

image of cover attached.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19680006254/downloads/19680006254.pdf

Definition of experimental tests for a manned Mars excursion module. Volume 4 - Briefing brochureConceptual design and test program for manned Mars Excursion Module /MEM/ mission in 1980 period
Document ID
19680006254
Document Type
Contractor Report (CR)
Authors
Canetti, G. S. (North American Rockwell Corp. Downey, CA, United States)
Date Acquired
August 4, 2013
Publication Date
November 1, 1967
Subject Category

SPACE SCIENCES
Report/Patent Number

SID-67-755-4, V. 4

NASA-CR-92561
Funding Number(s)

CONTRACT_GRANT: NAS9-6464
Distribution Limits
Public
Copyright
Work of the US Gov. Public Use Permitted.

Available Downloads​

NameType19680006254.pdf

 

[Archibald]

I LOVE this document. It is the closest we ever come from a MEM, ever. Also reminds of J.K Lee Columbia aviation in Stephen Baxter Voyage novel.

 

[Space Baron]

I LOVE this document. It is the closest we ever come from a MEM, ever. Also reminds of J.K Lee Columbia aviation in Stephen Baxter Voyage novel.

I agree, it is fantastic… i plan on having this mission profile available to play, in my expansion Mars game for LIFTOFF! 2.0. .

Checkout www.liftoff2.com

another great profile is the
BELLCOM Manned Venus Flyby printed Feb 1, 1967
TR-67-600-1-1

Feldman, Ferrara, Havenstein, Volonte and Whipple are the authors.
http://www.devin.com/cruft/19790072165_1979072165.pdf. Downloadable!

 

[Space Baron]

I think this is the place for this...

I was just perusing through the San Diego Air & Space Museum (SDASM) archives on Flickr, and came across this illustration of a Convair / General Dynamics eight-man capsule, which was posed a few years ago.

The caption for the image describes it as "Title:GD/Astronautics Art Details: Empire Study; Earth Re-Entry Vehicle - 8 Man Date: 02/19/1964." As the caption states, this apparently came about from the Early Manned Planetary-Interplanetary Roundtrip Expeditions (EMPIRE) project/studies.

https://flic.kr/p/NuXSBA

this is gorgeous!

 

[Archibald]

I LOVE this document. It is the closest we ever come from a MEM, ever. Also reminds of J.K Lee Columbia aviation in Stephen Baxter Voyage novel.

I agree, it is fantastic… i plan on having this mission profile available to play, in my expansion Mars game for LIFTOFF! 2.0. .

Checkout www.liftoff2.com

another great profile is the
BELLCOM Manned Venus Flyby printed Feb 1, 1967
TR-67-600-1-1

Feldman, Ferrara, Havenstein, Volonte and Whipple are the authors.
http://www.devin.com/cruft/19790072165_1979072165.pdf. Downloadable!

And there are tons of other similar documents - I've been collecting them since 2007.
From the top of my head

- Manned Eros asteroid flyby, 1966 Northrop study

- Venus ORBITAL mission (not flyby !) 1967 study by NASA Lewis.

- Triple planetary flybys in the second-half of the 1970's - Venus-Mars-Earth, and it would be possible to add lunar and asteroid flybys along the way: a quintuple exploration mission !

- FLEM: Flyby Landing Excursion Mode.
As the named entails: drop a crew on Mars surface, but save weight with the mothership NOT stopping in Mars orbit: it just flyby Mars on an heliocentric orbit. And the MEM has to run after it (!) otherwise the crew dies in heliocentric orbit...

- Bellcomm variant of FLEM, replacing the crewed MEM with a Voyager-like sample return probe. At least if that one don't catch back the manned flyby mothership, nobody dies !

Only these five, plus the MEM testing you mentionned above, would be fantastic.

Plus the crapton of Apollo lunar exploration plans: Tycho, farside, Marius Hills (my happy place !)... including the LM&SS: Apollo dragging a KH-7 spysat around the Moon in place of a LM, and getting 1-foot or less ultra-high-resolution pictures of the entire lunar surface, LRO 2009 style.

 

[Space Baron]

FLEM is my favorite! Based on pure, raw, engineering confidence; it is ruthlessly efficient!

 

[Archibald]

"So tell me, you want to go Mars with just ONE Saturn V ? I have a plan !"

 

[Space Baron]

"So tell me, you want to go Mars with just ONE Saturn V ? I have a plan !"

I’m game, when you say GO, do you mean surface, flyby or Orbit? like FLEM? PHd? Soil retrieval to orbit or flyby?
Propulsion type?
I’m trying to offer every viable profile in my game/sim.
I’m curious.

fritz

 

[publiusr]

FLEM is my favorite! Based on pure, raw, engineering confidence; it is ruthlessly efficient!

Mine too. Mark Wade's astronautix website was in error showing a lunar LEM for the Mars lander I would think. Now, if you had two superheavies, a Falcon Heavy, one SLS and one LM-9, how might that make FLEM better?

 

[Space Baron]

FLEM is my favorite! Based on pure, raw, engineering confidence; it is ruthlessly efficient!

Mine too. Mark Wade's astronautix website was in error showing a lunar LEM for the Mars lander I would think. Now, if you had two superheavies, a Falcon Heavy, one SLS and one LM-9, how might that make FLEM better?

With that group of five rockets, would get near 160t total to Mars Orbit. lots of options with all that. lots of profiles…