Manned U.S. Spacecraft for British RAF ?

[Michel Van]

i hearing recently this rumor:

In 1960 or 1970 the RAF look to buy or build in licence U.S. manned Spacecraft
special Gemini or MOL even Space Shuttle !
Is this true ?

like i say this a rumor, with this as possible origin
Gemini hardware:
the Avenger episode "Man-eater of Surrey Green" (Season 4 Episode 11 / 11-Dec-65)
were Steed and Peel found a crashed RAF space capsule
Wat is a Gemini spacecraft
http://www.dissolute.com.au/avweb/epi4/meship.jpg
Shuttle Hardware:
James Bond Movie MOONRAKER
Were Drax Industries Moonraker space shuttle on loan to the United Kingdom is hijacked...

 

[archipeppe]

Re: Manned U.S. for British RAF ?

Mmmm...it seems unlikely.... :

 

[Michel Van]

that's rocket Left on picture

more 1960 B.I.S. Lunar proposal here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6954.0.html

 

[Barrington Bond]

I've quickly looked at that episode. The inference is by what is said that it is a one seater as only one man is lost "5'000 miles up in the cosmos". Granted it looks Gemini like but you see very little of the craft - only that one window is seen. RAE spacefighter perhaps... ;D

Regards,
Barry

 

[TsrJoe]

hi there, the 'Blue Streak' drawing posted above is from the IPMS. Research & Develpment SIG. newsletter, issue 4, covering various 'rocket and space projects', original reference sources as noted

cheers, Joe

 

[CNH]

A Blue Streak launcher wouldn't have the payload capacity to put a Mercury capsule into orbit, let alone a Gemini.

 

[Spark]

Hi,
With the light weight single stage agreed, a capsule would be sub-orbital.
According to former de Havilland people who worked on the project seven tons to LEO (300n.mile) was expected from a RZ12 + LH/LOX upper stages. From a mature vehicle even more.
With the intended RZ13 (cancelled April 1960) you have a first stage equal to the Titan 1.
With the RZ14 you have an engine that is as powerful as an early Shuttle engine with about the third the mass.
With High Energy (LH/LOX) upper stages it could put up the equivalent to a Soyuz plus a Freelander!
You then have to remember the Middle weight lift vehicles for which the Woomera Launch facilities were built, much bigger payload!
Woomera was intended for military launches and global near polar orbits are more important. There were plenty of alternative equatorial sites looked at and remember de Havilland had a small dedicated team working on recoverable BSSLV in the 1950’s
Remember the Australians were expecting manned space craft by 1965 or shortly there after, thats why they built 6A and 6B with a million pound thrust capacity!

A Blue Streak launcher wouldn't have the payload capacity to put a Mercury capsule into orbit, let alone a Gemini.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Combing the two proposals below might have been able to deliver a Gemini series spacecraft into a useful orbit:

(h/t Jemiba)

 

[CNH]

At best, you could put 1 tonne into orbit with that configuration. Not Mercury, not Gemini.

 

[archipeppe]

At best, you could put 1 tonne into orbit with that configuration. Not Mercury, not Gemini.

Absolutely right, despite all you always need an Atlas equivalent to put a Mercury in orbit and always a Titan equivalent to put a Gemini in orbit...

 

[Grey Havoc]

I was thinking of the use of some of the more exotic fuel candidates, but you might be right that something more like the three stage BSSLV (Black Prince) might have been a safer bet, though more expensive. Of course, you then would have to avoid pitfalls like the cul-de-sac of replacing the Black Knight stack component with that ill-fated proposed French built second stage. L-17 strap on boosters might have been a good fit for a manned mission profile though.

 

[CNH]

Or possibly using some stripped down Black Knight rockets as add-ons.