Magnet-Motor diesel electric 8x8

[Voltzz]

I found an ad from the German company Magnet-Motor from the year 2000, showing an 8x8 diesel-electric AFV with wheel-hub-motors. From a quick google Magnet-Motor also built the motors for the General Dynamic AHED (Advanced Hybrid Electric Demonstrator) but i cant find any connection between the two vehicles except both being 8x8.
Does anyone have any more information on the shown vehicle or any other Magnet-Motor AFV projects?

 

[Apophenia]

You're right, the GDLS AHED (aimed at the British Army's FRES tech-demo programme) had no commonality with the German VT-E (Versuchsträger-Elektrisch) demonstrator other than also using Magnet Motor's in-hub EMs.

VT-E was a PoC built by KMW and Magnet Motor. Initially, it was intended to be a stretched, hybridised, motor-in-hub Fennek modification. In the end, it made more sense to ditch the Fennek hull altogether and start from scratch. It was a parallel hybrid - diesel driving a water-cooled generator to directly power the oil-cooled in-hub motors. Vehicle electronics were also water-cooled. (I presume that this gen-set arrangement could also charge battery banks but I've never seen batteries mentioned.)

Beyond producing a demonstrator, I'm not sure what the objective of Krauss-Maffei was. The overall effect is a scaled-down, lower-profile Spähpanzer Luchs ... but I don't think that this PoC was really anticipating an operational derivative. Interesting, though, that the VT-E 8x8 only weighed 12.7 tonnes - so, only ~2.5 tonnes more than a fully-loaded 4x4 Fennek.

 

[Voltzz]

You're right, the GDLS AHED (aimed at the British Army's FRES tech-demo programme) had no commonality with the German VT-E (Versuchsträger-Elektrisch) demonstrator other than also using Magnet Motor's in-hub EMs.

VT-E was a PoC built by KMW and Magnet Motor. Initially, it was intended to be a stretched, hybridised, motor-in-hub Fennek modification. In the end, it made more sense to ditch the Fennek hull altogether and start from scratch. It was a parallel hybrid - diesel driving a water-cooled generator to directly power the oil-cooled in-hub motors. Vehicle electronics were also water-cooled. (I presume that this gen-set arrangement could also charge battery banks but I've never seen batteries mentioned.)

Beyond producing a demonstrator, I'm not sure what the objective of Krauss-Maffei was. The overall effect is a scaled-down, lower-profile Spähpanzer Luchs ... but I don't think that this PoC was really anticipating an operational derivative. Interesting, though, that the VT-E 8x8 only weighed 12.7 tonnes - so, only ~2.5 tonnes more than a fully-loaded 4x4 Fennek.

thanks for the quick answer, could you recommend any good sources on the VT-E?
the Fennek VTE thing also explains this picture that can be found on the Magnet Motors website that had me stumped before. But thats maybe something for the Fennek thread

 

[Apophenia]

thanks for the quick answer, could you recommend any good sources on the VT-E?
the Fennek VTE thing also explains this picture that can be found on the Magnet Motors website that had me stumped before. But thats maybe something for the Fennek thread

I'm afraid that I have no sources to recommend on the VT-E. (I just happened to have collected some notes on hybrid electric armour back in the day and retained a few 'widows'.)

Interesting to know that Magnet Motor GmbH had a photo of Fennek on their website (and that they are now part of Renk!). The wheels on that vehicle have standard Fennek rims so, I'm guessing, Magnet Motor were just familiarizing themselves with the handling of the internal combustion 4x4.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I found an ad from the German company Magnet-Motor from the year 2000, showing an 8x8 diesel-electric AFV with wheel-hub-motors. From a quick google Magnet-Motor also built the motors for the General Dynamic AHED (Advanced Hybrid Electric Demonstrator) but i cant find any connection between the two vehicles except both being 8x8.
Does anyone have any more information on the shown vehicle or any other Magnet-Motor AFV projects?

The Japanese Type 16 Maneuver Combat Vehicle was supposed to have wheel hub motors, not sure where exactly that stopped.

 

[Apophenia]

The Japanese Type 16 Maneuver Combat Vehicle was supposed to have wheel hub motors, not sure where exactly that stopped.

Yeah, it was the MoD's Technical Research and Development Institute that was initially looking at motor-in-hub concepts for the JGSDF's Future Wheeled Combat Vehicle programme. TRDI's role was to come up with concepts to flesh out requirements and procurement documents. Since the FWCV was to be a modular family of vehicles, the appeal of motor-in-hub drive was obvious.

When the FWCV project tanked, part of it was replaced by the Light Combat Vehicle Program. Alas, by the time the LCV produced hardware as the Maneuver Combat Vehicle prototype in 2008, the electric drive was gone.

 

[Scott Kenny]

The Japanese Type 16 Maneuver Combat Vehicle was supposed to have wheel hub motors, not sure where exactly that stopped.

Yeah, it was the MoD's Technical Research and Development Institute that was initially looking at motor-in-hub concepts for the JGSDF's Future Wheeled Combat Vehicle programme. TRDI's role was to come up with concepts to flesh out requirements and procurement documents. Since the FWCV was to be a modular family of vehicles, the appeal of motor-in-hub drive was obvious.

When the FWCV project tanked, part of it was replaced by the Light Combat Vehicle Program. Alas, by the time the LCV produced hardware as the Maneuver Combat Vehicle prototype in 2008, the electric drive was gone.

Thank you.

 

[Voltzz]

Found some more details in polish paper here

The electric drive was developed for a German 8x8 wheeled vehicle, class 32t, with motors placed
in the wheels (Fig. 10a). A vehicle propelled by a 600 kW diesel engine reaches a speed of 100 km/h.
Placing the driven motors in the wheels resulted in a significant reduction in the height of the vehicle
and an increase in the loading space in comparison with the classic drive system (Fig. 10b).

 

[Voltzz]

This Nato report on the All Electric Combat Vehicles (AECV) mentions this and a bunch of other German electrification projects. All of them use motors and Magneto Dynamic Storage (Flywheels) by Magnet Motor.

Since 1985 the R&D Programs of the German Government resulted in developing and manufacturing of
permanent magnet machines and the appropriate power and system electronics which have the characteristics
and potentials for vehicle applications. They show the highest torque and power values at minimum volume
and weight together with best efficiencies and optimal control features. Figures 7.2 and 7.3 show some
wheeled and tracked vehicles running with Multiple Electronic permanent magnet propulsion systems

The report has more detail on the three other programs (Wiesel, Marder and MAN truck)
The truck was a cooperation with ARMSCOR of South Africa and formed the basis of their development of a diesel-electric Rooikat. I have posted some more information on it here

 

[Scott Kenny]

All Electric?

Not without batteries that charge in 5 minutes and something to power the chargers...

Hybrids, folks. Diesel-electric works well, turbine electric works even better.

 

[TomS]

All Electric?

Not without batteries that charge in 5 minutes and something to power the chargers...

Hybrids, folks. Diesel-electric works well, turbine electric works even better.

https://www.sto.nato.int/publications/STO%20Technical%20Reports/RTO-TR-AVT-047/TR-AVT-047-$$ALL.pdf

Their usage of all-electric is c.2004 and doesn't match what we'd use today. When they talk about an "all-electric" drivetrain, they're talking about what we today would generally call a hybrid, with a prime mover (usually diesel, possible turbine) producing electricity that gets stored and/or used power motors connected directly to the wheels/tracks.

The alternative term "hybrid propulsion" here seems to refer to a setup where there is a traditional mechanical drivetrain connecting the prime mover to the wheels/tracks, but it can be supplemented or alternatively driven by electric motors.

 

[Voltzz]

All Electric?

Not without batteries that charge in 5 minutes and something to power the chargers...

Hybrids, folks. Diesel-electric works well, turbine electric works even better.

The 'All' in All Electric Combat Vehicle does not refer to the complete electrification of the automotive components but instead to the electrification of All systems in a combat vehicle. Therefore it isnt just concerned with mobility but also for example with armament (ETC guns, rail guns, lasers) and protection (electromagnetically accelerated plates). Another more achievable example would be the elimination of most or all hydraulic systems on an AFV.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Okay, that makes more sense. electric transmission is almost certainly lighter than a mechanical one, and gives ludicrous torque.