lysander floatplane

[brewerjerry]

Hi
I am reading interceptor fighters by bowyer on page 53 he mentions the hurricane and spitfire floatplanes being high priority, then mentions that the order was also applied to the Lysander and gladiator.
Anyone seen a Lysander sketch ?
cheers
Jerry

 

[airman]

No and nothing about Gladiator !

 

[Tophe]

Our what-if modeller friends have probably built some, do you mean: industrial true drawings?

 

[Grey Havoc]

According to this, the Fleet Air Arm used 67 Lysanders during the war, most of them on loan from the RAF, with around 18 bought originally for the FAA. Haven't found anything yet on a floatplane version, although it may have been intended for RAF Coastal Command (North Sea reconnaissance?).

 

[airman]

Gladiator Seaplane exist like a mod of Il-2 game
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8019/glo2.jpg

But not real project of seaplane variant of Lysander or Gladiator !

 

[Tophe]

Dreamers have filled the blank with fakes:

 

[Grey Havoc]

If the design does exist, the float arangement was probably something more along the lines of the Arado Ar 231:

[IMAGE CREDIT: Virtual Aircraft Museum (aviastar.org)]​

The Ar 231 was a small reconnaissance floatplane, build in easily detachable sections, to be stored on an U-boat. The Ar 231 was a parasol-wing design, but for easier storage the right wing was attached lower than the left wing, and the center section was angled. The Ar 231 could be stored in six minutes, but performance and handling were bad. Six built.

EDIT: A three view can be found below, courtesy of LuftArchiv.de (some interesting pics at the link):

Testing soon revealed the Ar 231s to be fragile, underpowered, and difficult to fly even during calm weather, and as a result, development ended in favour of the Focke Achgelis Fa 330 autogyro. Some of the testing was done on the auxiliary cruiser Stier, two of the six prototypes being taken on one voyage.
[LINK2]

Arado Ar 231 three view [IMAGE CREDIT: LuftArchiv.de]​

 

[Stargazer]

Hotlinking is denied on the last picture, you'll have to save it onto your PC and upload it from there.

I totally agree about the float arrangement, to me that's the only configuration that could really fit the Lysander satisfyingly.

 

[Apophenia]

I totally agree about the float arrangement, to me that's the only configuration that could really fit the Lysander satisfyingly.

I suspect that removing the Lysander's main landing gear legs would require tearing the fuselage structure apart. Why not use those legs as a float mounting strut à la the Noorduyn Norseman.

Weight and size are approximately the same for Noorduyn and Lysander as well. So, why not use the same MacDonald Bros. (Edo) 55-7170A floats installed on the Norseman Mk.IV as well?

Attached is a rough view of what a 754 NAS Lysander on Edo floats might look like. (Should this be in the Alternative History section?)

 

[Stargazer]

Funny that you suggested a vision of a floatplane Lysander... I just finished one myself!

The float arrangement I have in mind is a lot more "organic", so to speak, with the floats blending in what used to be the wheelmounts. My image is full of imperfections (size of floats, inclination of the floats' angle) but it gives a rough idea. I think the Lysander was a very clean design that would have looked magnificent with floats.

 

[Tophe]

Congratulations for this beauty of yours, Stargazer. Now the 'real' thing (if someone ever finds it) has just to confirm one way or the other, or maybe a third one, miracle...

 

[robunos]

I checked Putnam's 'Westland', and there's no mention of a floatplane version,
likewise, there's nothing about a floatplane Gladiator in Putnam's 'Gloster'.
However, Gloster did have experience with floatplanes with the Gloster
Schneider Trophy racers, so they had the knowledge to have built one.
I don't have the graphics skills to produce an image, but I would have thought
that the floats' front struts would pick up on the undercarriage mounts,
while the rear struts would use the strong point fitted in the Sea Gladiator
fuselage, where the arrestor hook was mounted.




cheers,
Robin.

 

[Jemiba]

Just a quick attempt of a Gladiator with floats. Tried to use the floats of the Blackburn
Roc, but they seem to be too large, so I reduced the size.
To my opinion, a floatplane version of the Lysander would have made more sense, than
a Gladiator on floats. The Lysander was used for SAR work and for transporting agents
into enemy held territories, so a floatplane could have been useful. But the Gladiator
was outdated even before WW II and would have suffered by the decrease of its
performance even more.

quote "Should this be in the Alternative History section?"

As brewerjerry actually had a source mentioning those floatplane versions, I think this thread should stay here,
as long, as we have no evidence, that there weren't such thoughts.

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi All,
Many thanks for the replies/comments.
Seems any info if any, may reside in the PRO/NA at kew, although I may try an e mail to Westlands.
I started a thread over on the flypast forum as well, as the lysander really interests me.
cheers
Jerry

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi All,
The full text,from the book (fair use rules, in the interest of research).

source page 53
interceptor fighters
mjf bowyer
isbn 0-85059-726-0
Pub PSL

'An exotic scheme devised with typical british ingenuity in moments of crisis,as was the case in the recent falklands conflict,was the fitting of twin floats to hurricanes for use in norway.On april 24 they were ordered as 'urgent' and two days later a pair earmarked for a blackburn roc reached kingston for testing in june.By the end of april the float requirement was extended to spitfires with an instruction that there was a 'definite and urgent need to equip some on the highest priority',This was ordered to apply to lysanders and gladiators on may 7,but the ideas owed more to imagination than usefulness,spitfire floatplanes were to appear periodically'



cheers
Jerry

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi
I have been surfing but nothing so far,but found this drawing on the hurricane floatplane.
cheers
Jrry
http://wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/AirWar/74/Draw/01.jpg

 

[robunos]

But the Gladiator
was outdated even before WW II and would have suffered by the decrease of its
performance even more.

'An exotic scheme devised with typical british ingenuity in moments of crisis,as was the case in the recent falklands conflict,was the fitting of twin floats to hurricanes for use in norway.On april 24 they were ordered as 'urgent' and two days later a pair earmarked for a blackburn roc reached kingston for testing in june.By the end of april the float requirement was extended to spitfires with an instruction that there was a 'definite and urgent need to equip some on the highest priority',This was ordered to apply to lysanders and gladiators on may 7,but the ideas owed more to imagination than usefulness,spitfire floatplanes were to appear periodically'

If the dates referred to above are in 1940, then Gladiators were operational in Norway, flying from a frozen lake. once summer arrived, this would melt, depriving the aircraft of their runway...




cheers,
Robin.

 

[Tophe]

Hi
I have been surfing but nothing so far,but found this drawing on the hurricane floatplane.
cheers
Jrry
http://wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/AirWar/74/Draw/01.jpg

In Russian it is written Nyerealizovanii Proyekt Gydrosamolyeta = Unbuilt Project Hydroplane.
Another float Hurricane dated 1941/42 is at http://www.omega-models.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=8&Itemid=26 together with Ash-82 Hurricane, Griffon Hurricane and others... but I have checked the complete catalogue and found no Westland (Lysander) nor Gloster (Gladiator)...

 

[brewerjerry]

If the dates referred to above are in 1940, then Gladiators were operational in Norway, flying from a frozen lake. once summer arrived, this would melt, depriving the aircraft of their runway...

cheers,
Robin.

Hi
I now can understand the thinking behind the float idea,it had never occured to me.... Dooh..
and yes book is refering to 1940 on the page with this extract
cheers
Jerry

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi
I have been surfing but nothing so far,but found this drawing on the hurricane floatplane.
cheers
Jrry
http://wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/AirWar/74/Draw/01.jpg

In Russian it is written Nyerealizovanii Proyekt Gydrosamolyeta = Unbuilt Project Hydroplane.
Another float Hurricane dated 1941/42 is at http://www.omega-models.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=8&Itemid=26 together with Ash-82 Hurricane, Griffon Hurricane and others... but I have checked the complete catalogue and found no Westland (Lysander) nor Gloster (Gladiator)...

Hi
Yes from what I have seen surfing the web the hurricane project was abandoned when norway fell, and presumably the lysander and gladiator as well.
cheers
Jerry

 

[Nik]

Okay, why not go the whole hog and put floats on a deLanne Lysander ??

 

[brewerjerry]

Okay, why not go the whole hog and put floats on a deLanne Lysander ??

Hi
Thats more the realms of what if..
cheers
Jerry

 

[Stargazer]

Okay, why not go the whole hog and put floats on a deLanne Lysander ??

Now THAT is quite weird. I thought exactly that yesterday and even added it to my to-do list... Wow!