LuZAR - Lugbedrywe van Zuid-Afrika

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Does anyone have reliable infos about LuZAR in South Africa?
I guess, this is a "bullshit" info. I have crosschecked the info with Antonius Raab's detailled autobiography meanwhile. Raab did not mention any contacts to Katzenstein in South Africa. He mentioned a lot of license agreements for the Schwalbe in his book, but none in South Africa. At least Raab seems not to have been involved in the above "activities".
 
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luftfahrtarchive said:
Does anyone have reliable infos about LuZAR in South Africa? ...
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I am the resident expert on LuZAR (Lugbedrywe van Zuid-Afrika). Why? Because I was the one who made up this "bullshit" in the first place. -- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8739.0

My question is: Since (besides your question here) the only Google result for "LuZAR - Lugbedrywe van Zuid-Afrika" appears on Beyond the Sprues - a 'what-if' forum - why on Earth did you assume it to be a real organization?
 
That makes sense, Apophenia! Looks very much, as if your virtual story is the origin source for that information.
I got the story about a South African Katzenstein aviation company in Germany. However, there were a lot of questionsmarks, i.e. the Fokker activties in S.A. and the Schwalbe components from Estland (where definitely only two Schwalbe aircraft were built without spare production, even if Raab would have wished to built more) and not a single document or photo.

Btw, nice story. Does not fit perfect with Raabs development, as he already moved to Greece in 1935 and was mostly engaged in Spain in 1936, where he got arrested in the same year until 1937.
 
Thanks luftfahrtarchive. I started that story with "This whif ..." but somehow such stories take on a life of their own on the internet ...

In the story, I definitely exaggerated Raab's work in Estonia ... or, at least, what little is known of that effort. (The Raab-Flugzeugbau Gesellschaft is frustratingly difficult to research online!) And you are quite right about the timing of Raab's move to Greece. In my alternative-reality story, I have the South Africa-based Kurt Katzenstein contacting Raab just before he chose the Greek offer.

The beginnings of the story of Katzenstein (aka Kurt Kaye) and Willy Rosenstein were substantially true. (Dipl. Ing. Katzenstein [1] had came up whilst preparing designation lists for Raab-Katzenstein and Dietrich-Gobiet).

-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/raab-katzenstein-designations.11929/
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/dietrich-gobiet-dietrich-flugzeugwerke-designations.12470/

IIRC, I did not find any signs of Fokker corporate activity in pre-WW2 South Africa. The first that I am aware of was for Mjr. Allister Miller's Port Elizabeth-based Union Airways Ltd (registered 24 July 1929). But that 1930 Fokker was a US-built Super Universal (ZS-ABR , ex-NC98K).

Mod: Perhaps, to avoid any confusion, this thread should be moved to the Alternative History and Future Speculation section?

__________________________________________________________

[1] A fair number of members of the extended Katzenstein family did find their ways to Africa. Oddly, one was another Kurt Katzenstein also born in Kassel. (This Kurt Manfred Katzenstein was KIA in 1942 at age 21 while a member of the UDF's Imperial Light Horse.)
 
On the topic, for future reference.. "In Southern Skies" by John William Illsley is a very good book on early aviation history (focusing on the period 1816-1940) in South Africa.
 
Most probably, we are leaving Secretprojects (sorry hesham) now, but as you mention Illsley ...
Does Illsley mention Rosenstein's and Katzenstein's "Union Aviation"? According to the Bucker-Files a total of 19 aircraft were ordered from S.A. until breakout of WWII. I know, that Katzenstein participated in the Governor's Ralley 1937 with ZS-AJY. A second Bucker-aircraft was announced by Massen in that ralley, but did not appear. In 1938 Katzenstein again was announced for the Govenor's ralley, but did not appear. But, except some crash records and the impounds of 1940, I do not have ay further records or photos of these South African Buckers. I am wondering, if so many aircraft were used by the flight school itself?
 
luftfahrtarchive said:
Most probably, we are leaving Secretprojects (sorry hesham) now, but as you mention Illsley ...
Does Illsley mention Rosenstein's and Katzenstein's "Union Aviation"? According to the Bucker-Files a total of 19 aircraft were ordered from S.A. until breakout of WWII. I know, that Katzenstein participated in the Governor's Ralley 1937 with ZS-AJY. A second Bucker-aircraft was announced by Massen in that ralley, but did not appear. In 1938 Katzenstein again was announced for the Govenor's ralley, but did not appear. But, except some crash records and the impounds of 1940, I do not have ay further records or photos of these South African Buckers. I am wondering, if so many aircraft were used by the flight school itself?
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Why you are leaving,we always welcome with everyone,specially who has knowledge in aviation,and for me,
I spoke about some aircraft in the past,I thought it was real,and latter we discovered it was fake,and we transferred
it to a proper section,no problem,just stay with us.
 
I am not leaving, Hesham ;-)
I just thought, that the Bucker-topic is not close enough for SecretProjects as it is SecretUtilization.
But I am happy, if we could continue it here with some more details about Union Aviation.
 
Mavrick5 said:
Sorry bud. I could not find any more information on this subject.
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However, thank you for your efforts, Gerhard!
I will visit some photo archives in Germany during the next few months.
Probably one of the Bucker ferry pilots had made some photos of the South African Buckers,
which hopefully survived in one of the archives.
 

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