Lockheed Martin/Mitsubishi F-2 Super Kai

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Donald McKelvy
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There has been some talk about this again recently, but with the way things are, that may be all it amounts to.
 
Grey Havoc said:
There has been some talk about this again recently, but with the way things are, that may be all it amounts to.
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I think the following events have, if anything, increased the attractiveness of the Super Kai:
- The probable destruction of a big portion (18 - see photo) of the JASDF F-2 force when the tsunami swamped the 21st Fighter Sqd at Matsushima AB. The Japanese were, last I heard, evaluating the feasibility of repair, but I'd be surprised if any were repairable. Given the local devastation, the airplanes probably spent several days filled with seawater before they received any attention.
- Rising tensions with China and increased visibility of advanced PLAAF equipment.
- Delays and cost increases in the F-35 program. This extends the JASDF's fighter shortage and the idle time for Japanese F-35 supply base.
- Decline of the USD - with all the US content in the F-35, this must bring down the Yen cost.

Regards,

Taildragger
 

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There is all that, true. I hadn't taken the possible costs decrease into account.
 
Six others will be repaired at an estimated cost of 80 billion yen ($1 billion), the ministry said, more than the original purchase price of the six aircraft.
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They are mad. They are *absolutely* mad. For the $1 billion they could have 20 new F-16s.
 
Matej said:
Six others will be repaired at an estimated cost of 80 billion yen ($1 billion), the ministry said, more than the original purchase price of the six aircraft.
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They are mad. They are *absolutely* mad. For the $1 billion they could have 20 new F-16s.
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Sanity seems to be in short supply everywhere these days.....
 
alejandrogrossi said:
Frist time I see that
Question
The idea was new aircraft? or modify with CFT the current fleet of F2?
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It's just a model Lockheed Martin exhibited at the Yokohama International Air and Space Show.

F-2 upgrades are add JDCS(F), AAM-4, AAM-5, ASM-3, JDAM operational capability, and J/APG-2 radar onboard. Future plans add Link 16 datalink and Sniper XR targeting pod operational capability.
 
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elmayerle said:
If you are at it, why not develop a production version of the diverterless intake trialed on the AAFTI-16 as part of research for the X-35?
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Reason 1 $$$$

Japan paid out the arse on the F-2s development for a debatable improvement over the Block 50/52 F-16s. Now a "What-If" idea on Japan buying something closer the F-16ES (F-16J?) would probably see enough funds available for a DSI intake.
 
GTX said:
Don't underestimate the value placed upon local production (keeping money in the local economy, employment etc) plus technological transfer gained by such.
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Oh certainly, especially with Japan as their acquisitions double as jobs programs. But are 60 F-2s necessarily “better” than 100 F-16s? No one really knows till the shooting starts (hopefully never).
 
isayyo2 said:
GTX said:
Don't underestimate the value placed upon local production (keeping money in the local economy, employment etc) plus technological transfer gained by such.
Click to expand...
Oh certainly, especially with Japan as their acquisitions double as jobs programs. But are 60 F-2s necessarily “better” than 100 F-16s? No one really knows till the shooting starts (hopefully never).
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Easily
J/APG-1 is an Active electronically scanned array radar system designed and manufactured by Mitsubishi Electric for use on the Mitsubishi F-2 fighter aircraft. It was the first series production AESA to be introduced on a military aircraft in service. It is currently being upgraded to the J/APG-2 standard for compatibility with the new AAM-4B air-to-air missile. Source america.pink

Japanese F-2 support fighter using J / APG-1 AESA radar, as the first practical airborne AESA radar, to promote its domestic data generally it has 800 T / R modules , as well as the early models of the low altitude Small Target only look 35NM known, in fact, whether it is propaganda so bear it?

Actual T / R module number is (24 + 24 + 24 + 90 + 56 + 12 + 288) + 180 = 1216 . …… Cunning little devils can not really stupid, from scratch war era like data to lower reported, it seems that this tradition continues, if known T / R module power (3W GaAs MMIC) power thrust reversers radar, then it will underestimate as many as 52% of the maximum power. Google translated from Chinese



Defense Agency Technology Development Division in 2011 to promote its PDF, practical time and development J 6W GaN T / R modules / APG-2 radar basically consistent.

Under the assumption that the improved J / APG-2 radar uses 6W GaN components to achieve the planned book, said the situation “ultra-high output holds ji ュ Hikaru pay air line”, integrated at least remain the same, the Japanese media exceeds AN / APG- capacity 79 AESA radar can not really be regarded as bragging
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www.google.com

Mitsubishi F-2

The F-2 support fighter aircraft is a multi role single engine fighter aircraft principally designed for the Japan Air Self Defence Force (JASDF). The F-2 support fighter aircraft is a multi-role s…
www.google.com www.google.com

One of the big points of the F-2 is that the Japanese could do as they wish with it. JMSIP for the F-15j was an political bomb shell and subsequent F-15j upgrades have been still born. The fact that the Japanese own the F-2 has been one of the best things about it for them.
 
F-2 said:
The fact that the Japanese own the F-2 has been one of the best things about it for them.
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Errr...given there is a lot of US sourced IP etc (especially from Lockheed Martin), exactly how much does Japan really own?
 
GTX said:
F-2 said:
The fact that the Japanese own the F-2 has been one of the best things about it for them.
Click to expand...
Errr...given there is a lot of US sourced IP etc (especially from Lockheed Martin), exactly how much does Japan really own?
Click to expand...
If General Eaglet's account is accurate, its implications are dramatic. In essence, he argued that a significant cause for the upward revision in GD's projected R&D cost estimates flowed from the dramatically different conceptions of the program the two sides still held as late as 1989. To summarize, in 1987 GD had costed out several relatively modestly modified F-16 design concepts as- suming development entirely in the United States, presumably in accordance with the Pentagon's general guidance at the time. TRDI had taken these estimates in 1988 and increased them by approximately a factor of two to reflect the much more ambitious modifications and applications of Japanese technology that it in- tended to incorporate into the fighter. The work statement MHI provided to GD in August 1990 called for R&D efforts that went significantly beyond those GD had anticipated. While using the F-16 as a general baseline, MHI plans now called for changing about 95 percent of the total engineering drawings and signifi- cantly changing most of the major avionics and other subsystems and support equipment, all of which amounted to much more than
the relatively modest modification of the F-16 that the Pentagon had originally anticipated. While retaining a superficial resem- blance to the F-16, the FS-X the Japanese envisioned would in many respects be an all-new fighter. Thus, it appeared that, while Congress and U.S. officials had been busy fighting over clarifying questions of technology transfer and workshare during 1989, TRDI and Japanese industry had moved the FS-X considerably further toward the conception of the Rising Sun fighter. The FS-X configu- ration as envisioned at this time and the major changes to the baseline F-16 design are shown in Figure 10.2
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From troubled partnership page 291. It’s worth noting the sections GD/Lockheed were the build left wing box was compared more to a licensing arrangement then co development. They also built the vertical stabilizer (only unchanged part of the aircraft from the F-16) and part of the aft fuselage which is aluminum (to GD’s disappointment as they wanted more composite experience for the A-12)
 
GTX said:
It isn't just about physical building but IP ownership.
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No IP has been infringed. The plane as mentioned mostly uses redesigned parts, the flight control system was redesigned because the US was unwilling to transfer the source code. Most systems are domestic designs for that very reason, to avoid the “Black box” nature of the F-15j.
 
F-2 said:
The fact that the Japanese own the F-2 has been one of the best things about it for them.
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F-2, do you know of any domestic updates coming to Japan's fleet? AAM-4 and ASM-3 should be coming into service soonish?
 
isayyo2 said:
F-2 said:
The fact that the Japanese own the F-2 has been one of the best things about it for them.
Click to expand...
F-2, do you know of any domestic updates coming to Japan's fleet? AAM-4 and ASM-3 should be coming into service soonish?
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Hey! AAM-4B entered service in 2007 for the F-15J I think the first F-2 was made compatible in 2012 and it was widespread by 2017. ASM-3 was given 2016 for the base model but I think really this year is when it’s actually in service, the updated version is set for 2025. ASM-1/2 are being retired this year or next.
 
1672017698925.jpeg

Another picture of Super Kai. I’d kill for a F110-ge-132 on a F-2.

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I ordered a magazine that supposedly has info on the F-2 version that was proposed for the F-4 replacement program.
 
Colonial-Marine said:
Wasn't there an F100-PW-232 that could have been an option?
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Yes there was a F100-PW-232. Most publications called it F100-pw-229a. PW proposed it as a usaf refit engine in the 90s. It was up and running quite a few years earlier but then fell off the face of the earth. With an F-16 big mouth inlet it put out something like 31500lbf. I’m not sure if the F-2 inlet would be better.
 

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