Little-known pre-war Spanish aircraft

[Maveric]

Hi all,


do you know the spanish Freüller Valls MA? I found a text: ..., the MA was the third Aeroplane to be designed and built by the Malagueno aristocrat José Freüller Valls,...


I search for the first two aircraft of this man... Can you help me?


Thanks, Maveric

 

[Maveric]

Hi all,


I need a drawing and/or pics of the spanish Pallarols 40A (only one aircraft built, registration EC-AXX).


Thanks, Maveric

 

[Maveric]

Hi friends,


I have only this poorly picture of the spanish Guinea-Severt 2DDM. Do you have a 3view-drawing and technical data?


Thanks, Maveric

 

[Stargazer]

Topics merged (our friend Maveric got a stroke of heshamish frenzy... ).

This thread is made up of what was created as five separate topics, all on obscure pre-war Spanish aircraft. It is best at this stage to start a generic topic on the subject, and then to split into separate topics if need be.

Allow me to repeat here what pometablava and myself wrote in other topics here and here:

[quote author=pometablava]In my opinion, we should take one minute to choose the most precisse and informative tittle and descriptions for every new topic.
This would be a benefit for all the comunity here because it would be easier to find particular information in the forum.Organized info it is also more pleasant to read.
And please, try to avoid dispersion and off topic.[/quote]

[quote author=Stargazer2006]Proliferation of new topics. It is best to create a new topic only if there is enough information to share or if the subject is likely to stir an interesting discussion. Posting a poorly-scanned, stamp-sized and ill-identified aircraft and begin a topic with it is not a good idea in general. The best solution is to identify a generic topic (such as "Various US VTOL projects", "Unknown McDonnell fighter designs" or "Unidentified missiles") and add your find to them. If enough information emerges, it will always be possible to split the relevant posts and start a topic of its own.[/quote]

Of course starting a new topic with only a two-line message and no pics is even worse! I want to really emphasize the last sentence, because that's the key to organizing information on this forum. Also remember that it is best to start a new post within the topic for each separate project. That will make the splitting easier.

I really don't want to be seen as a pain in the neck about this topic thing, but I'd like to underline the fact that managing scattered or disorganized information on the forum is a Herculean task. I've split tens of very old lengthy topics over the past few weeks so that further reference be made easier. Everytime there was enough material to justify a new topic, it was created. All the one-offs and isolated posts were kept in the generic topics until more material/info comes along.

Hope this clarifies thing a bit.

 

[Antonio]

I search for the first two aircraft of this man... Can you help me?

In 1931, José Freüller designed a biplane named Freüller. In 1932 he flown his second aircraft, named Freüller A.

Source:

http://es.scribd.com/doc/50313124/En-Vuelo-13
Page 4 of 24

 

[Maveric]

I search for the first two aircraft of this man... Can you help me?

In 1931, José Freüller designed a biplane named Freüller. In 1932 he flown his second aircraft, named Freüller A.

Source:

http://es.scribd.com/doc/50313124/En-Vuelo-13
Page 4 of 24

Fantastic found, both early types described in the text. You made my day.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


does anyone know if DIAZ company created anther aircraft after
or before Type-C fighter ?.

 

[Arjen]

Hi friends,


I have only this poorly picture of the spanish Guinea-Severt 2DDM. Do you have a 3view-drawing and technical data?


Thanks, Maveric

From 'Aircraft of the Spanish Civil War 1936-1939' by Gerald Howson, Putnam, 1990:

Guinea-Severt 2DDM

This charming two-seat monoplane, powered by an uncowled 75hp Pobjoy R radial engine, was designed and built by Capitán José Luis Severt y Lopéz Altamirano and Teniente Miguel Guinea Elorza in one of the hangars of the Servicios Técnicos at Cuatro Vientos military air base, Madrid, in 1934. It made its first flight in 1935 and, registered EC-ZAZ, was subsequently sold to don Julio Alegría of Bilbao. During the civil war it was used for reconnaissance by the Basque air arm. By a curious coincidence, Ten Guinea himself, who was with the Nationalist forces that captured Bilbao in June 1937, saw the little aeroplane ha had built burning by the side of a road.

No data available.

 

[Maveric]

Hi Arjen,
Although there are only very limited information, but very interesting.

Thank you

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is a push-pull light aircraft design,created by Mr. Verdaguer.


Les Ailes 9/7/1925

 

[c460]

And I suspect in DIAZ Type-C fighter is one of its production,am I right ?.

http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft32965.htm

Yes, there was only one such aircraft. I don't think it had a model name, I've always seen it referenced as "Díaz Caza" (Díaz fighter) in Spanish publications.

This fighter was produced by Amalio Díaz. The Díaz family was active in aeronautics from before WW1. The father Florencio Díaz had a carpinter's workshops in Madrid, and had three sons: Carlos, Amalio and Pablo.

Pablo Díaz was friend with Juan de La Cierva (later inventor of the autogyro) and José Barcala. Together they made two aircraft in 1912-1913: the BCD-1 Cangrejo and the BCD-2 (see pictures). The name BCD stands for Barcala-Díaz-Cierva. The BCD-2 (and certainly the BCD-1 as well) was built in Florencio's workshops.
See pp.235-241 of this book:
http://www.cronistasoficiales.com/wp-content/uploads/portadas/Murcia,%202001.pdf

Amalio Díaz set up a factory in Getafe in 1914 with his two brothers. These workshops produced several aircraft:
- the Hedilla Monocoque I in 1915 for Salvador Hedilla,
- the Perojo 1 for José del Perojo in 1917,
- the Adaro Caza, a fighter designed by Julio Adaro in 1917, whose prototype remained unfinished,
- the Díaz Caza (in your link it is speculated that it was an evolution of the earlier Adaro design but this is unsure).

In the early 1920's there were at least three separate Díaz factories, making propellers, run by Florencio (in Madrid), Carlos (in Madrid) and Amalio (in Getafe). See p.215 of:
http://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es/docs/default-source/revistaspdf/rhm_extra_2_2013.pdf?sfvrsn=0&download=true

Amalio's factory continued to be active making propellers well into the 1920's, and you can find advertisements for it in the Aérea magazine. Pablo and Amalio Díaz continued to be friends with La Cierva, and the first C.1 autogyro was built in their workshop.

Adrien

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Adrien.

 

[c460]

I have documents to post about González Gil-Pazó and A.M.E. but I think this thread is becoming confused and I don't want to mix everything together.

Could the moderators please split some topics from this thread, perhaps those three:
- a thread about the González Gil-Pazó aircraft and those made by Pazó alone
- a thread about CASA early projects
- a thread about A.M.E. aircraft (Aeronáutica Militar Española)
This would leave only the more minor aircraft here.

Adrien

Done and to be found here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23651.0.html

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23652.msg183206.html#msg183206

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23653.msg226523.html#msg226523

 

[hesham]

does anyone know if DIAZ company created anther aircraft after
or before Type-C fighter ?.

After the wonderful answer by my dear C460 in reply # 10,but there is
some unknown airplanes to this company appeared in 1920s up to 1931 ?,
it was called Aeronatica Militar Espanola.

 

[hesham]

The same company is here,sorry;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23651.0.html

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a biplane trainer from Adaro called Chirta.

http://america.pink/adaro-chirta_249264.html

 

[Apophenia]

here is a biplane trainer from Adaro called Chirta.

The complete article on the 1.E.7 Chitra ...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jylascurain/6718825387/sizes/l
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jylascurain/6718828443/sizes/l/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jylascurain/6718830291/sizes/l/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jylascurain/6718832891/sizes/l

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Apophenia.

 

[rlucas]

Nice article, many thanks for that! Does anyone know if there is an three view available of this little biplane?

 

[hesham]

Nice article, many thanks for that! Does anyone know if there is an three view available of this little biplane?

Unfortunately I haven't any 3-view for it Rlucas.

 

[Maveric]

 

[rlucas]

Many thanks for the 3 view, much appreciated!

 

[hesham]

From L'Aeronautica 1927-12,

here is a helicopter designed by engineering called Acedo.

 

[hesham]

From Aeroplano 35;

1- Model for military biplane,designed by Colonel Vives

 

[hesham]

From Ailes 9/1929,

here is an Info about Cañete Pirata,the company called HACR or Hidro Antonio Cañete de Reconocimiento ,
I can't find any more products to this firm ?.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cañete_Pirata

 

[hesham]

From L'Aeronautica 1927-12,

here is a helicopter designed by engineering called Acedo.

Hi,

http://kulturserver-nds.de/home/hubtest/medien/Typenkartei3953xGUN7x9T3Z7.pdf

 

[Apophenia]

here is an Info about Cañete Pirata,the company called HACR or Hidro Antonio Cañete de Reconocimiento ,
I can't find any more products to this firm ?

HACR wasn't a "firm", it is an acronym (and an alternative name for the Pirata. In Spanish, Hidro Antonio Cañete de Reconocimiento just means something like reconnaissance water-aircraft by Antonio Cañete.

As the Wiki link says, the Pirata was built in the workshops of the Aviación Militar base at Mar Chica.

BTW: Capitan Ingeniero Naval Antonio Cañete Heredia had previously trained at the Laboratorio Aerodinámico de Cuatro Vientos and had designed a boat-towed glider flying boat called Gaviota (Gull) - also at Mar Chica.

 

[hesham]

From Aerea 5/1924,

the Alfaro Type-11.

 

[hesham]

From Aerea 11/1925,

what was this ?,they mentioned Mr. Mendizabal engineer ?.

 

[hesham]

From L'Aeronautica 1927-12,

here is a helicopter designed by engineering called Acedo.

From Aerea 3/1926,

his name was Mr. Luis Acedo.

 

[hesham]

From Aeronutica Textoimpreso,

what was this wind-tunnel Model ?,and was it from Spain ?.

 

[Apophenia]

... what was this wind-tunnel Model ?,and was it from Spain ?.

The text just seems to be about wind tunnel testing generally. The model seems to depict a Dornier Wal J without its tandem engines mounted.

It could be Spanish - CASA did license-build Wals. If so, I wonder if the wind tunnel testing might be related to the 1926 Trans-Atlantic flyer, 'Plus Ultra'?

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Apophenia,

but as you see the edge of wing is different and maybe that is the engine (in red circle),I guess
it was developed from it ?.

 

[Apophenia]

Agreed, the CASA-built Wals had square-cut wing tips. They also had taller rudders than shown on your model. (Both features being true for 'Plus Ultra' as well.)

But look at other, smaller features. All those complex struts match the Wal perfectly. As does the exact shape of the portside stummel. As for your circled item, that matches the Wal's shallow underwing fairing.

In any case, I wouldn't assume a re-development based solely on a smallish wind tunnel model. Even those rakishly angled wing tips may have been a minor modification considered for 'Plus Ultra' which was never adopted. Considering the range of square-cut or rounded wingtips and varying rudder shapes among the Wal Js, I wouldn't read too much into minor variations on a wind tunnel model.

 

[hesham]

From Aerophile 1934,

I never heard about this designer for Spain before,Ansaldo ?.

 

[hesham]

Vilanova-Acedo.

Aviones Espanoles del siglo XX

 

[Silencer1]

From Aerophile 1934,

I never heard about this designer for Spain before,Ansaldo ?.

Perhaps, it's Italian company - supplying certain fighters' types in 1920s?

 

[hesham]

Perhaps, it's Italian company - supplying certain fighters' types in 1920s?

No way my dear Silencer,the Italian Ansaldo dissppered in 1921,and
this was from 1934 ?!.

Barrón Flecha,

Aviones Espanoles del siglo XX

 

[hesham]

Vilanova-Acedo.

And from, Aviones Espanoles del siglo XX

Barrón W

 

[hesham]

From Aerophile 1934,

I never heard about this designer for Spain before,Ansaldo ?.

Perhaps, it's Italian company - supplying certain fighters' types in 1920s?

He was a Spanish Person,called Mr. José María Ansaldo.

Aviones Espanoles del siglo XX