Kriegsmarine - KM Ship Plans/Discussion

Right now I am drawing the KW45. Is there any more detailed blueprint that I got here?
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That's the only one for now, KW45/50 design plans are possibly in "Protokolle Neubauausschuss" ("Protocols of New Design Committee"RM 20/882 and RM 20/883 respectively) as they were designed by the said committee, do you have the specifications data for both KW 45 and 50? i can provide them.
 
Torsionbar said:
I can't distinguish the number of 20mm guns.
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According to the plan, 10x1 (50% less than OPQ) 20mm guns distributed among the ship superstructures (searchlight platforms, hangar and foremast). Red = 20mm guns, Gray circle= searchlights.
Interestingly both KW45/50 seems to be carrying two quad 3.7cm DP guns.
KW45.jpg
 
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I realized that I had a plan for a variant of the Handelzerstorer. A photograph of an original plan, though I have no idea where it came from and I have seemed to have saved in back in 2020.
I also have a list of 1944-45 (late war) 2cm - 4cm prototype guns and mounts. I occasionally reference it from memory (especially in regard to the honestly quite hilarious 3.7cm Flak 43 Flakvierling) though I have just rediscovered the screenshots along with the Handelzerstorer plan in a search though the old photos in my phone. Unfortunately, there was nothing Dutch-related.
I will post those when I am on dry land again. Maybe a week or two?
 
cattalonX said:
Consider the curved shape of the front of the turret，Maybe an earlier design，like L20 or GK xxxx
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Are there any threads on the forum or other sites discussing Germany's unfinished naval program in WWI like this thread?
 
alexi said:
According to the plan, 10x1 (50% less than OPQ) 20mm guns distributed among the ship superstructures (searchlight platforms, hangar and foremast). Red = 20mm guns, Gray circle= searchlights.
Interestingly both KW45/50 seems to be carrying two quad 3.7cm DP guns.
View attachment 744960
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Interestingly both KW45/50 seems to be carrying two quad 3.7cm DP guns.
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Eagle`s Eye!!!
 
Antonio said:
No. It would be a good idea.
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Even though this thread was created with the Kriegsmarine in mind, I do not have any problem with WWI or interwar German ships; in fact there is an entire section in the drive for WWI ships. Would not be opposed to another thread, but have no problems with them here either.
Wurger said:
Really hope to see that list! Can you please develop on the "quite hilarious 3,7cm Flak 43 Flakvierling"?
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As memory serves, it was an attempt to mount four 3.7cm Flak 43 guns onto a modified 2cm Vierling chassis, possibly as a means to put guns on mounts very late in the war. If I recall correctly, the concept either was not executed or flopped very badly, as vibrations would make the guns highly inaccurate (a problem suffered to a lesser degree by 3cm MK 103 guns on the same 2cm chassis). More to follow when I get home.
 
I try to remain consistent where I can.
As promised last week on Tuesday, here are the images of the prototype mounts at the end of the war as well as accurate translations from CGPT.
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Translation:
48) 3 cm Turntable Twin Mount M 44 U:

WKWCurrently, 40 units per month are being manufactured for 2 cm storage, as the intended MK 303 weapon is not yet available in the necessary quantities in operational form. The recoil absorption is operationally adequate. Tests with high rates of fire have shown that this can lead to failures. It is being considered to install a mechanical recoil system instead of the hydraulic one. Testing and measurements are continuing in the lab with new MK 303 weapons.

49) 3 cm Pedestal Mount M 44 S:

WKWTwo prototype units have been completed, with two more expected in February and two more in March. The presentation to OKM representatives revealed no fundamental objections. Difficulties remain in sourcing the large spherical bearings, which are also required for the pump to cock the weapon.

50) 3.7 cm Flak 43 M adapted for shipboard use:

WKWThe reinforcement of the pedestal mounting has been structurally completed. The strength increase brings about 80%. The sighting arm for the mounting of the mechanical ring sight and two special mounts of type D.Z.C.2 still need to be developed.

51) Device 58 in U-Boat Mounting:

WKWThe design of a twin mount was presented to OKM representatives on October 18, 1944. Further work on this mount has been halted until a decision is made on the associated installation question. The project for this device remains suspended in the event of changed requirements, especially if land-based use takes precedence over underwater use.

52) 3 cm Twin Mount:

WKWThe design of the mount has been postponed several times in favor of other devices. Preliminary construction work began at the beginning of February.

53) 3.7 cm Flak Twin 43 adapted for shipboard use:

WKWThe design work has been commissioned to Dietrich & Koch, Reichenberg, Hoferichter. The work is not yet started due to labor issues.




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Translation:
36) 3 cm Twin Mount:

WKWThe design work has not yet started. Its commencement depends on the allocation of labor.

37) 3.7 cm Flak Twin 43 adapted for shipboard use:

WKWAccording to information from OKM, work on this device has been discontinued.

38) 2 cm Flak Quadruple M 38/43 F:

WKWTrials will be conducted at the Dippensee airfield with the first prototype. A second prototype is to be produced, with additional parts being supplied by Telefunken. A valid set of drawings will be prepared during the development of the second prototype.

39) 3.7 cm Flak 44 in 3.7 cm Flak Mount M 45:

WKWThe improvements resulting from the presentation on February 1, 1945, have been implemented and completed at Gustloff factories in Suhl. A second trial unit will be delivered by Gustloff by early March.

40) 8.6 cm RAg 9 M 44:

WKB, WKMThe proposal was approved on February 24, 1945, in the presence of OKM representatives. The separate launch for individual, group, and full salvos was deemed satisfactory, as well as the further improvement of certain electrical components. The order has been placed for 4 units with automatic ignition (electro-mechanical).

41) 8.8 cm KM 41 in 8.8 cm Flak LM 41:

WKB, WKMAbout 20 units are ready for serial production at Mittelstahl, currently stored in Unterlüss, awaiting the start of mass production. These units cannot yet be provided for frontline use due to missing certain parts in the aiming system.




1730153527098.png
Translation:
62) Oscillating Parts 10.5 cm KM 44 in Temporary Firing Mount:

WKB, WKMThe alignment mount and the oscillating parts will be completed in Düsseldorf by the end of February. The barrel will initially be inserted without rifling. Once two rifled barrels are completed in Tegel, one rifled barrel will be inserted.

63) 10.5 cm KM 44 in Twin Mount L. M 44:

WKB, WKE, WKMThe production of a three-axis test device is canceled. Two two-axis test devices are to be produced: one by the subcontractor Mittelstahl and the other in area M. The delivery of drawings from area M must be specified after relocation.




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Translation:
81) 3.7 cm Flak Quadruple 44:

WKWBy using the modified 3.7 cm Flak 43 (ejection of casings and frames downward), it is possible to build a favorably designed quadruple mount. The development work has begun.

And here is the photographed Handelzerstorer "IIa" plan.
Handelszerstorer_IIa.jpg
Based on the data in the bottom right of this image, this is a slightly different version of KIG BNr. 2472/41 GKds. v. 2. 10. 41, as it is known in Breyer's book. The primary difference is the use of 28cm triples in lieu of 38cm twins, but in most other respects the two designs are the same. This one has about 10,000 more shp/WPS but the weight and speed remain the same.
 
alexi said:
Bummer that the below far-right notes have been cutoff, otherwise i would able to track where the plan reside on invenio but an amazing work nonetheless @_Sarcasticat_
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I will see what I can do about tracking down where this came from. It's not likely given how old it is and the ambiguity of where exactly this came from in my recollection, but I will try.
 
I looked at all the directories in RM25 and put all the drawings cataloged and if they have been scanned into a spreadsheet. Attached (if it works) is the main page with drawings in each folder and subfolder. Eg for the Flugzeugtager or Aircraft Carrier there is 3 sub folders, and only the folder for Graf Zeppelin contain any scanned drawings.

Hope the file will work, it will make tracking any new scanned drawings easier.
 

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There are errors in the archive. The drawing, which is in the section Dutch gunboat K-2, actually depicts the minelayer Linz.
 
_Sarcasticat_ said:
Hello and welcome,

This is a hub for all things Kriegsmarine. You will find information, data, and even deductions like this nearly nowhere else - and I take great pride in that.
So if you have a question about the Kriegsmarine, are looking for some specific ship or weapon, or even want sources, this is your place. Myself or any number of the great members of secretprojects will, I have confidence, assist.

Author's Note: this isn't wehraboo central, this is Patrick, and "German science is the greatest in the world" isn't an instrument.

You will find plans and books on a great many things. This includes but is very certainly not limited to:
  • H-Class.
  • Existing German Battleships (Schlatschiff Scharnhorst/Gneisenau/Bismarck/Tirpitz) and their preliminary designs.
  • Admiral Zenker's various designs.
  • O-class battlecruiser.
  • Kreuzer M.
  • Spahkreuzer's 38, 39, and 40.
  • Your typical K's, Leipzig, and Nurnberg.
  • Destroyers of every type and size, including Zerstörer Typ "32", Typ 36C, 37J/I-IV, 42 (Z-51), 42A/B/C, Typ 44, and Typ 45.
  • Flottentorpedoboote, including Ftb 1939, 1940, 1941/41A, 1942, and 1944.
  • S-Boote.
  • Weapons of all conceivable calibers (5cm AA to 53cm main guns).
  • Torpedoes.



All plans can be found here, including some other goodies if you look hard enough.

Germany - Sarcasticat's Home :) - Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com
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Hi a friend of mine has a broken WW2 Kriegsmarine service issue watch with a service number M10548.

Can you give any suggestions how to trace the identity of the Kriegsmarine that this watch was issued to??

Thanks for any help you can give

Peter
 
Pete100 said:
Hi a friend of mine has a broken WW2 Kriegsmarine service issue watch with a service number M10548.

Can you give any suggestions how to trace the identity of the Kriegsmarine that this watch was issued to??

Thanks for any help you can give

Peter
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I'm flattered, but I cannot help.
With just a serial number, there is practically no way to tell what person or ship this watch may have been to - it may have never been to a ship, even.
 
The plans for the Grille are on the bundesarchive website. There are 6 drawings. 1 external/rigging, 1 longitudinal section, 2 cross sections and 2 deck plans
 
Does anybody has this book. I would like to know if it it worth to buy it for me. And if you have. What ships have 3D models in this book.
 

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goofygoober20000 said:
Is this true that H-44 would have been faster than H-43?
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I don't think so. They had exactly the same machinery.

Breyer writes (pg 316 of the English translation of "Battleships and Battlecruisers: 1905-1970) that H-43 would have been good for 31 knots, and H-44 would have been good for 30.1.

Of course, this is all estimation, since these were little more than design studies. Your actual mileage may very.

DRW
 
From the recently published new edition of the "Gröner" (Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe 1815-1945, volume 1), probably one of the most reliable sources, as based on original sources only

1733849522426.png

... and as already mentioned, it's stated here again, that those designs were never meant to be realised, but just were studies, mainly for examining, how the increasing weight of aerial bombs would lead to bigger ships, if the deck armour would have been increased accordingly.
 
lukasgrul said:
Does anybody have any blueprint of 150mm FLAK 50, FLAK 55, FLAK 60 or FLAK 60F?
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Unfortunately no.
goofygoober20000 said:
Is this true that H-44 would have been faster than H-43?
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drwells42 said:
I don't think so. They had exactly the same machinery.

Breyer writes (pg 316 of the English translation of "Battleships and Battlecruisers: 1905-1970) that H-43 would have been good for 31 knots, and H-44 would have been good for 30.1.

Of course, this is all estimation, since these were little more than design studies. Your actual mileage may very.

DRW
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H-43 and H-44 carried over the same machinery as H-42. However, 31 (H-43) and 30.1 knots (H-44) are overload. The actual is 30.7 and 29.8 knots. Using diesel only would yield a maximum of 23 and 22.5 knots respectively.
Just as in the armament, though, machinery is not much of a concern and the primary purpose is in their armor and torpedo defense. Still, their speed is rather impressive for their size.
 
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This thread is getting quite long and jumbled which makes it harder for people to find stuff. So following discussions with the mod team I'll be splitting out the WW1 (and pre-1914) posts and possibly the armaments too into their own dedicated threads over the next few days.
 
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@_Sarcasticat_ Just saw you've edited the first post of this thread... Could you, please, bring back the link to your Google Disc, the one with German blueprints and documents? It was deleted from the first post, and there were lots of interesting things there...
 

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