Kriegsmarine - KM Ship Plans/Discussion

goofygoober20000 said:
Is this true that H-44 would have been faster than H-43?
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I don't think so. They had exactly the same machinery.

Breyer writes (pg 316 of the English translation of "Battleships and Battlecruisers: 1905-1970) that H-43 would have been good for 31 knots, and H-44 would have been good for 30.1.

Of course, this is all estimation, since these were little more than design studies. Your actual mileage may very.

DRW
 
From the recently published new edition of the "Gröner" (Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe 1815-1945, volume 1), probably one of the most reliable sources, as based on original sources only

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... and as already mentioned, it's stated here again, that those designs were never meant to be realised, but just were studies, mainly for examining, how the increasing weight of aerial bombs would lead to bigger ships, if the deck armour would have been increased accordingly.
 
lukasgrul said:
Does anybody have any blueprint of 150mm FLAK 50, FLAK 55, FLAK 60 or FLAK 60F?
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Unfortunately no.
goofygoober20000 said:
Is this true that H-44 would have been faster than H-43?
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drwells42 said:
I don't think so. They had exactly the same machinery.

Breyer writes (pg 316 of the English translation of "Battleships and Battlecruisers: 1905-1970) that H-43 would have been good for 31 knots, and H-44 would have been good for 30.1.

Of course, this is all estimation, since these were little more than design studies. Your actual mileage may very.

DRW
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H-43 and H-44 carried over the same machinery as H-42. However, 31 (H-43) and 30.1 knots (H-44) are overload. The actual is 30.7 and 29.8 knots. Using diesel only would yield a maximum of 23 and 22.5 knots respectively.
Just as in the armament, though, machinery is not much of a concern and the primary purpose is in their armor and torpedo defense. Still, their speed is rather impressive for their size.
 
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This thread is getting quite long and jumbled which makes it harder for people to find stuff. So following discussions with the mod team I'll be splitting out the WW1 (and pre-1914) posts and possibly the armaments too into their own dedicated threads over the next few days.
 
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@_Sarcasticat_ Just saw you've edited the first post of this thread... Could you, please, bring back the link to your Google Disc, the one with German blueprints and documents? It was deleted from the first post, and there were lots of interesting things there...
 
Seems to be, but my question is how were they supposed to place those twenty 127mm? They definitely would put 5 or 6 next to the bridge but what about the rest?
 
I think that is 20 barrels eg 10 twin mount so the rest would be on sponsons, or a single barrel mount was considered
 
Force Lord said:
Unfortunately no. At least, not published. If there's anything in the Kriegsmarine archives it's probably not yet digitized in Invenio.
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I'm gonna take a wild guess and say armor wise, it probably was similar to the A-III C variant, or anything of the A series.
 
MrMemerMan said:
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say armor wise, it probably was similar to the A-III C variant, or anything of the A series.
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Whitley actually mentions that the German aircraft cruisers had variants that were pure carriers, however he gives no outlines of these versions.
 
goofygoober20000 said:
I think it could have been a SK C/34 (the only 127mm in kriegsmarine) or a completely different design
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The passage outright calls them "DP guns", so assumedly the author is not referring to the standard C/34 guns in SP mountings.
Of course, this doesn't narrow it down at all: this could be the LM/41 twin mounting for the DDs (although that one is only 52 degrees max elevation -- perhaps a different version would reach 70 degrees, as I recall the single mount did?)
It could also be the KM 40 (128/61), or the "12.7cm Doppelflak" whose documents are is in the weaponry folder.

(The fact they are called "127mm" in the passage is probably just a designation quirk, the same as British 113mm guns being called "114mm", and German 149mm guns being called "150mm".)
 
goofygoober20000 said:
Very interesting...
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So they were looking at what was effectively (in some respects at least) a Battlecarrier design though the alternate interpretation of it being a German equivalent to the Midway-class has merit as well, along with a 'Flight-deck cruiser' design, both for use in a post-war period following what was still then seen as a inevitable Axis victory.
 
Seeing as so much incorrect information was spread about the armor scheme of the Scharnhorsts, do we have any (verified) plans or drawings of the armor of the Bismarck class and the H class?
It seems odd that the Bismarck armor scheme would look so different from the Scharnhorst scheme.
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YourChair said:
Seeing as so much incorrect information was spread about the armor scheme of the Scharnhorsts, do we have any (verified) plans or drawings of the armor of the Bismarck class and the H class?
It seems odd that the Bismarck armor scheme would look so different from the Scharnhorst scheme.
View attachment 760526
View attachment 760527
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I don't think there is for H39. Either lost or buried somewhere in some container at BAMA.

There is a similar one to your Scharnhorst on Tirpitz, but that's probably "as planned", and not an "as fitted" plan.

Bismarck horizontal armour deck over the forward magazine wasn't 100 mm but 95 mm, or the main mast upper lookout wasn't 60 mm, but 55 mm by the time they finished construction. And who knows what else more was different.
 
De Grasse cruiser was one of my ship during year 1971 in Pacific "tour" for nuclear tests.
Some drawings made on different step... in french sorry ! :cool:
 

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goofygoober20000 said:
Information about O-39 and beyond (not the best quality but it still works)
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Old stuffs, you can find them on previous pages, beside O-39 (the original O-class) the rest are modified variants to fit some committee requirements while PI and PII are brand new designs (fully diesel powered machinery instead mixed, no torpedoes, no floatplane hangars and first German large warships to have unified DP guns).
 
alexi said:
Old stuffs, you can find them on previous pages, beside O-39 (the original O-class) the rest are modified variants to fit some committee requirements while PI and PII are brand new designs (fully diesel powered machinery instead mixed, no torpedoes, no floatplane hangars and first German large warships to have unified DP guns).
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Old stuff for some but not all of us. Are there any drawings or sketches of the PI and PII?
 
goofygoober20000 said:
Very interesting...View attachment 758364
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Very very interesting. Has any information survived on the wargames themselves? What scenarios were being studied can provide interesting historical insights, the classic example (slight derail) being the 1905 wargame carried out by the British General Staff into what could be done to oppose a German invasion of Belgium in the event of a Franco-German war. The results of that fed directly into the establishment of the Entante and British planning for cross channel transport in the event of war. A discussion of this game in the context of the value of war planning can be found at the link below.

 
Did the Google driver (This one) with blueprints of armaments and ships and other stuff got deleted? I can't seem to access it all
 
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