joint development of a Franco-Indian air combat system?

Deltafan

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Press release from the French presidency


In the future, the two countries will expand their innovative defense cooperation in the field of advanced aviation technologies by supporting the joint development of an air combat system.

Is it:

-Developments of the Rafale?

-AMCA? https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...tion-fighter-programme-from-mca-to-amca.6239/

-TEDBF? https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-engine-deck-based-fighter.36769/#post-473936

-French participation in the kaveri engine for the AMCA?

-something else?
 
French assistance to the AMCA program? I have not heard or seen any news about the AMCA recently.
 
I can't wait to see this. I wonder who will have design authority?

Chris
 
I would possibly expect it to be India that will have design authority Chris, that is if it is the AMCA that the French are helping with.
 
Some thoughts, If it's a development of Rafale derivative fighter, like the Japanese FS-X ore various Boing/LM/EADS proposals for KF-X in its earlier days, I think that would probably be that the TEDBF would've changed to a Rafale-based derivative fighter development. Makes ton of sense since it will have commonalities with IAF Rafales and IN carrier air wing Rafale Ms.

If it's concerning AMCA, it's probably an expansion of their current MMRCA industrial off-set scheme. This would probably mean that Dassault is now full-fledged TAC for ADA in developing the aircraft. As for the Kaveri engine, it is already known that the GTRE "K10" engine in development with thrust figures of 110Kn is already being assisted by Safran. They are now talking about a JV between the two including Indian private sector, iirc.

IMO, the first possibility is a bit too "radical", in that it just makes too much sense, for it to happen in India. Indians giving up their own design for a derivative fighter? I thinks that's a bit too much to ask. I think that a official and expanded Dassault involvement in AMCA, therefor it becoming a "joint development" program makes a lot more sense.

French assistance to the AMCA program? I have not heard or seen any news about the AMCA recently.
During Aero India 2023 it was reiterated that the program is nearing CDR completion. They've started the production of the first bulkhead of the prototype and by the end of last year were handling some issues with budgetary approval with Indian budget system (in this case they need a Cabinet Committee on Security approval to give the project a go sign)
 
I thought there was recent news around Safran contracted to help with fighter engine development so assume its this.

Or maybe France has swapped Germany and Spain in SCAF for India?
 
I thought there was recent news around Safran contracted to help with fighter engine development so assume its this.
Like I've said, they are working to setup a JV. I'm not sure if that's what they are implying here though.

Or maybe France has swapped Germany and Spain in SCAF for India?
France would dearly miss Germany and Spain in a month :p

Actually, I've went through some interviews from Aero India 2023 and found one of them in which the programme director of AMCA was mentioning that the "are very proud of the fact that (in terms of "self reliant India") the AMCA is being developed without any help or involvement from foreign OEM (like Dassault, LM, etc)". Would be funny to see them team up in just 6 months after such interview.
 
So India will definitely be going it alone in all aspects of development of AMCA that includes everything from radar to engines as well as the aircraft itself, all I can say at this point is good luck to them. I wish them all the success with this design.
 
OR it could means India is joining SCAF. Probably semantics but this kind of Joint development means involved party would have to contribute financially and the end product will be used by both side. If the joint development is for AMCA, what possibly could French use from it ? Same goes for TEDBF, does French plan for a new carrier based fighters ?
 
OR it could means India is joining SCAF. Probably semantics but this kind of Joint development means involved party would have to contribute financially and the end product will be used by both side. If the joint development is for AMCA, what possibly could French use from it ? Same goes for TEDBF, does French plan for a new carrier based fighters ?
Given how joint French/German programs tended to go in the past, this is more likely to be a grave threat to SCAF, not an addition.
 
I would think that France could help India with certain parts of the AMCA program while keeping SCAF going for it's own needs, best of both worlds.
 
A French article from 11.07 :


(...)
A (…) hypothesis that is increasingly discussed concerns the possible future collaboration of the engine manufacturer Safran in the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter program, or TEDBF, the future twin-engine on-board fighter being developed by the DRDO, the innovation agency of Indian defence, in order to develop a new turbojet engine developing 12 tonnes of thrust for a given 26-ton aircraft.

Due to enter service in 2035, the TEDBF will replace the MIG-29s currently used on board the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditaya, a 45,000-ton aircraft carrier acquired from Russia then rebuilt by Indian shipyards to enter in service in 2014. It should also arm a possible third aircraft carrier announced a few months ago.

But Safran may well not be the only French manufacturer to participate in the TEDBF program. Indeed, according to the Indian site idrw.org, citing concordant sources, it would seem that Dassault Aviation can also support the Indian aeronautical industry in the development of this aircraft.
(...)

Obviously, it is advisable to be very cautious about these allegations, knowing the propensity of the Indian press to ignite on the basis of mere rumours. However, a collaboration with Dassault backed by the acquisition of 26 Rafale M, also intended to operate on board Indian aircraft carriers, would obviously be a rational decision for both India and the French aircraft manufacturer.

For the Indian Navy, it will indeed be essential to effectively replace the Mig-29s of the Vikramaditaya by 2035, which assumes that the TEDBF program is developed at full speed and encounters no programmatic or technological problem.
(...)
To be confirmed, or not...
 
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This is also what we learned before the 14th ofJuly/
Shouldn't we discuss further in in the TEBDF thread?

Notice that Dassault is in the process to buy back Reliance shares, in their joint venture, a company that hasn't produced much since dedicated to offsets for the previous Rafale deal.
It would be interesting to see the valuation.
 
There is absolutely nothing related to the TEDBF or Safran's participation in the TEDBF engine in this article.
At this stage, absolutely nothing proves that the "joint development of a Franco-Indian air combat system" corresponds to the TEDBF. This is one hypothesis among others. You yourself reported in this topic a joint helicopter project which could itself be the system in question.
 
In my post, there is. I mentioned TEBDF as it was also in another news report that day.
I also mention Safran to illustrate the wide aspect of the discussion.
 

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