Japanese T-1 trainer project

[blackkite]

Hi! This picture shows T-1 trainer porosal, Fuji T1F1, Shinmaywa T1S1 and Kawasaki T1K1.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/T-1/T1.html

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/T-1/T1-2.html

 

[hesham]

Great find my dear Blackkite.

 

[blackkite]

Not at all my dear hesham.
Source : Aircraft design 50 years memory. Takeo Doi. ISBN4-87357-014-X

 

[T-50]

very interesting subject Blackkite san! It proof again and again that the Japanese are not a people of copiest!
Takeo Doi was one of Japan best talented designers he has creating a lot of beuitiful aircraft of ww2 such as the Kawasaki ki-61 ,ki-100
I dint know he designed after the warjet aicraft,the only project that i know was a passanger aicraft with turboprop engines.
respect to all japanese aircraft engineers ( from the past to todays engineers)

 

[hesham]

Excellent my dear Blackkite.

 

[Maveric]

Thanks for sharing blackkite.
Are dimensions or power plants for the T1K1 and T1S1 known?

Maveric

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Bristol Orpheus.　I will go to ski.

 

[Maveric]

OK, so have fun...

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://dansa.minim.ne.jp/RC-T1-01-02History.htm
http://dansa.minim.ne.jp/CL-T1-01top.htm

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
T1K1, T1S1((No.2 and No.5 picture) and T1F1 specification.
Attached picture is modified T-1 plan for F-104 fighter NASAL rader.

 

[blackkite]

Larger images.

 

[hesham]

Larger images.

That's better,thank you my dear Blackkite.

 

[Maveric]

Fantastic work blackkite, man yTHANKS.... :-*

 

[blackkite]

Many thanks my friends for your attention.
The wing tips of Fuji T1F1 were twisted and lowered in order to prevent stall.
The wing of Kawanishi T1S1 was a straight wing because of the improvement in stability at low speed.
Moreover, in order to prevent stall at landing, the wing leading edge was also equipped with the flap.
All fuel tanks were installed in the wing.
Kawasaki T1K1 was based on T-33 under licensed production in Kawasaki, the weight saving and the miniaturized design were adopted for T1K1, and there was an advantage which can utilize the production equipment of T-33 as it was.

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1956,

a more Info about T1K1 & T1S1.

 

[blockhaj]

I have done a great deal of research regarding the supposed armament of the Fuji T-1. According to Jane's in 1966 the T-1 was planned to be able to carry Stuff like Sidewinders, bombs, rockets and gun pods but little detail is given to what exact models they intended to use.

Now the sidewinders and bombs are easy to figure out based on the era. Aim-9B's and 750 lb M117 general purpose bombs.

The rockets were harder but i think i cracked the code eventually. The air to ground rockets should be basic HVAR's but since the page doesn't give anything to work with in terms of stats there is no way to know for sure. The 2,75 inch AA rockets are 100% FFAR's as they were the default NATO AA rockets of the time but the M-3 pack took me a while to find. It turns out that the name M-3 is an alternative name for MA-3. The MA-3 was the first mass produced FFAR rocket pod. It held 7 rockets and entered service around 1958. Even though it saw massive use it has somehow been forgotten to time as there is very limited information online about it. Fortunately i found a picture of a Japanese Sabre armed with it which more or less confirm that it is the intended FFAR pod for the T-1.
The MA-3 is the big pod to the left. Even with the caps on it is clear how short the pod is. When the caps are off the rockets stick out.

But now i have hit a brick wall. I cannot figure out what gun pods the T-1 was supposed to use. It seems that the loadouts for it were drawn up already during the prototype stage but that only makes it harder to figure out what pods it was to use. I cannot find any viable multi platform gun pods prior to 1967 when the SUU-11 and SUU-12 come into the picture. Anyone got any clues or info?

 

[RAP]

Hope this is helpful.

 

[blockhaj]

Hope this is helpful.

Absolutely amazing information. I wonder though, what the heck are these hexagonal "M-3" rocket launchers? Never seen anything like them. Also the gun pods looks totally different from anything i can find from this period? Going by the shape of the guns they look like 20 mm cannons?

 

[iverson]

...snip...
The MA-3 is the big pod to the left. Even with the caps on it is clear how short the pod is. When the caps are off the rockets stick out.

I could be wrong. But I think that the pod on the F-86 is the usual F-86 drop tank. The only rocket in the picture is the 2.75-in SCAR training rocket on the
rail next to the practice bomb carrier.

 

[blockhaj]

...snip...
The MA-3 is the big pod to the left. Even with the caps on it is clear how short the pod is. When the caps are off the rockets stick out.

I could be wrong. But I think that the pod on the F-86 is the usual F-86 drop tank. The only rocket in the picture is the 2.75-in SCAR training rocket on the
rail next to the practice bomb carrier.

No it is the MA-3. Here is another pic of it without the caps.

 

[iverson]

No it is the MA-3. Here is another pic of it without the caps.

I'm fairly familiar with the design of US rocket pods, which is the main reason why I think the F-86 photo shows the banana-shaped F-86 drop tank. The tank is slightly foreshortened, but the up-swept tail fairing is still recognizable. The nose and tail caps that I have seen on 2.75-in rocket pods have all been symmetrical, with no up-swept tail cone.

Also, it seems odd that the F-86 would be carrying both an "MA-3" pod for 7x2.75-in FFAR rockets and a pair of 2.25-in SCAR training rockets on a single training sortie.

 

[blockhaj]

Here is the Sabre drop tank for comparison

No it is the MA-3. Here is another pic of it without the caps.

I'm fairly familiar with the design of US rocket pods, which is the main reason why I think the F-86 photo shows the banana-shaped F-86 drop tank. The tank is slightly foreshortened, but the up-swept tail fairing is still recognizable. The nose and tail caps that I have seen on 2.75-in rocket pods have all been symmetrical, with no up-swept tail cone.

Also, it seems odd that the F-86 would be carrying both an "MA-3" pod for 7x2.75-in FFAR rockets and a pair of 2.25-in SCAR training rockets on a single training sortie.

The picture is indeed odd but i think the Japanese text says that it is from a test.
Here is the Sabre tank for comparison. It is fused with the pylon and has that oblique strut. It also has fins etc. Also i think that cloth flap thing at the top indicates that it is armed and will become live once removed (at least in the Swedish air force)

 

[Grey Havoc]

I seem to recall from somewhere that one tactic during the Korean War was to fire training rockets to trick hidden AA guns and ground troops into revealing themselves. I think training rockets were also occasionally used as improvised marker rockets.

EDIT: Come to think of it, both tactics may have originally come about in late WWII.