Japanese engines up to World War 2

[blackkite]

Hi! Japanese WW2 airplane engine pictures. Enjoy.
http://mokehana.web.fc2.com/j-photo-hrc.htm
http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/yamanobe.twoface/2008#
http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/yamanobe.twoface/20082102#
I made a mistake. ATSUTA 12 is not DB901, it's DB601.

 

[Wurger]

Blackkite,

do you have pics of the massive liquid cooled engines Mitsubishi, Nakajima, Rikugun and Yokosuka were planning? All the best.

 

[blackkite]

Blackkite,

do you have pics of the massive liquid cooled engines Mitsubishi, Nakajima, Rikugun and Yokosuka were planning? All the best.

Hi Wurger! I found these liquid cooled engines from my bible.(Sorry not so massive. ;D)
You can see Kawasaki HA-40(川崎ハ-40,DB601Aa, top left), Aichi Atsuta21(愛知 熱田21,DB601Aa, top right).
Kawasaki HA-140(川崎ハ-140,DB603,middle left),Aichi Atsuta32(愛知 熱田32,DB603,middle right).
Tandem Atsuta32(HA-72, 3,400HP) was for Ki-64,side by side Atsuta32(HA-70) was for Keiun.(景雲).
Also you can see turbo conpound sakae(栄)(bottom left),which IHI manufactured and tested,Oka(桜花)rocket engine.(bottom right)

 

[robunos]

OT : So Subaru cars are made by FHI, who used to be Nakajima?


cheers,
Robin.

 

[blackkite]

OT : So Subaru cars are made by FHI, who used to be Nakajima?


cheers,
Robin.

For example, ①Shinroku Momose(百瀬晋六). He graduated Tokyo Imperial university(Aero technology), entered Nakajima Aircraft, developped turbo supercharged Homare(誉:meaning is honor) engine. In FHI,he designed very light weight 360cc air cooling engined Subaru 360 4 seat mini car. It was a best seller mini car in Japan. We call it Japanese Volkswagen. My high school teacher Onitsuka(鬼塚) used this car. Bad students broke front bumper. ;D
Mr.Momose admired CITROEN DS very much.

 

[airman]

about Chikubei Nakajima : was founder of nakajima aircraft company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_Aircraft_Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chikuhei_Nakajima

 

[blackkite]

OT : So Subaru cars are made by FHI, who used to be Nakajima?


cheers,
Robin.

For example,②Yasuo Naito(内藤子生):He designed Saiun laminar flow wing, served as T1 trainer chief designer in FHI.
In this site, you can see Shinmaywa and Kawasaki's proposal for T1 trainer.
T1 first flight pilot was same as Kitsuka's first flight pilot, Mr.Takaoka.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/T-1/T1.html

 

[Just call me Ray]

I heard that the reason why Subarus use boxer engines is because they had a surplus after the Aero Subaru didn't achieve the sales success they were hoping for, so they started putting them in cars. Is that true?

 

[blackkite]

I heard that the reason why Subarus use boxer engines is because they had a surplus after the Aero Subaru didn't achieve the sales success they were hoping for, so they started putting them in cars. Is that true?

It's not true.
FA200 Aero Subaru's engine is Lycoming IO-360B1B.
Generally aero engine's operating condition is more severe than car engine, because aero engine must support airplane's weight continuously in the air. It means aero engine is always operated with almost It's full ability.
In case of car engine, it's not necessary to support car weight, when 60km/h cruising condition, required power is only 10 to 20% of it's ability.
So aero engine is larger than car engine.
For example, Lycoming IO-360B1B's displacement is 5.85L while power is 180HP.
180HP power car engine's displacement is only 2L or 3L.

 

[mz]

I heard that the reason why Subarus use boxer engines is because they had a surplus after the Aero Subaru didn't achieve the sales success they were hoping for, so they started putting them in cars. Is that true?

It's not true.
FA200 Aero Subaru's engine is Lycoming IO-360B1B.
Generally aero engine's operating condition is more severe than car engine, because aero engine must support airplane's weight continuously in the air. It means aero engine is always operated with almost It's full ability.
In case of car engine, it's not necessary to support car weight, when 60km/h cruising condition, required power is only 10 to 20% of it's ability.
So aero engine is larger than car engine.
For example, Lycoming IO-360B1B's displacement is 5.85L while power is 180HP.
180HP power car engine's displacement is only 2L or 3L.

Well, one problem is direct drive which requires a low operating speed, that's one reason why the Lycoming produces so little power for the large displacement. You can have a high revving engine but then you need a reduction gear and those are prone to break.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD6e00A8dWo&feature=player_embedded
For engines with few cylinders, the reduction gear (PSRU) design is hard.
AFAIK, general aviation engines also have low compression to increase the time between overhaul.

 

[blackkite]

Thanks mz. Good lecture!
I found P&W R4360-53 Wasp Majors 28 cylinders (7cylinders×4array) air cooling radial engine(for B-36) picture.
Max power is 3,800HP. Excellent!!
Sorry off topic.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! This model's engine has turbo supercharger. The engine is Mitsubishi HA-50.
HA-50: aircooling 2 array radial 22 cylinders(11 cylinders !! ×2), cylinder diameter:150mm, stroke:170mm, displacement:66.1L, with turbo super charger, 3,100HP in take off(2,600rpm), boost:+500mmHg
This was the Fugaku.
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/yuunagi_dameya/7557760.html
http://kotov.ld.infoseek.co.jp/g10n.htm

 

[blackkite]

Hi! 1/32 scale Shinden.
You can see suction type engine cooling fan in this model. Enjoy.
http://www.zoukeimura.co.jp/en/products/sws01_shinden_cl.html

 

[blackkite]

Hi! NE-20 engine for Nakajima Kitsuka.
http://galland3.web.fc2.com/ne20/ne20.html
And Kugisho P1Y2-S Kyokuko(極光,Aurora) night fighter.
http://www.geocities.jp/awamori_oyaji/avi-p1y2s.htm
And Satoshi Koyama(小山悌),designer of Ki-27,43,-44,-84 and Fugaku.

 

[blackkite]

I give up! There are no data for these aircrafts in my No.2 bible. :

Hi! Japanese ww2 aero engine list.
http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/sanko/en_japan.htm


陸軍ハ番号＆制式名称：The IJA's HA number and official name, 海軍通称＆制式名称：The IJN's call name and official name, 統合名称：The IJA and IJN's unified name, ハ：HA, 会社：maker, 形式：type, 全長：overall length, 全幅：overall breadth, 直径：diameter, 乾重量：dry weight,
排気量：engine displacement, 圧縮比：compression ratio, 内径：bore, 行程：stroke, 過給器形式：super charger type, 機械式：mechanical type, 排気タービン式（タ）：turbo charger type,なし：none, 弁駆動方式：valve movement type, 吸／排気弁数：supply/exhaust valve number, 離昇馬力：take off power(hp),
回転数：engine revolutions, 高度馬力：altitude power, 空単星：air cooling single radial, 複：double,
水：water, 液：liquid, 冷却；cooling, 倒立：inverse, 直：in line, 中島：Nakajima, 三菱：Mitsubishi, 川崎：Kawasaki, 瓦斯電：Gasu-den(gas and electricity), 愛知：Aichi, 陸軍航空工廠：The IJA's aviation factory, 空技廠：Kugisho(The IJN's aviation research institute and factory), 日立：Hitachi,
寿：Kotobuki, 誉：Homare(NK9,HA-45), 栄：Sakae(for Zero fighter), 火星：Kasei(Mars), 金星：Kinsei (Venus), 護：Mamori, 熱田：Atsuta

 

[Wurger]

Hello Blackkite,

excellent stuff, as usual. Do you have pics of Nakajima`s ventures on liquid-cooled engines like Ha-15 or Ha-39?

 

[blackkite]

Hello Blackkite,

excellent stuff, as usual. Do you have pics of Nakajima`s ventures on liquid-cooled engines like Ha-15 or Ha-39?

Hi! Goodmorning. It's very very difficult for me, BTW keep trying to find these pics.

 

[blackkite]

Wow turbocharger! Same as Republic Rainbow.

 

[blackkite]

Hi engine sounds!

http://gileraiom.web.fc2.com/engine_sounds/engine_sounds.html

Anyone knows Kawanishi super large 500 ton flying boat study called KX-03?

 

[blackkite]

Hi! WW2 Japanese jet engine list.

 

[Stargazer]

Topic created from various posts in the "Early Aircraft" section.

 

[Johnbr]

The japanese Jet engine.

 

[Flying Sorcerer]

The Japanese seemed to prefer radials to inline piston engines. How come?

 

[Aurum]

The Japanese seemed to prefer radials to inline piston engines. How come?

In early 30-ies Japanese produced quite alot of inlines - Mitsubishi - produced licensed Hispano-Suisa V8-V12 & Jumo L88, Kawasaki - licensed BMV IV, Hiro - licensed Lorraine-Dietrich W12-W18.

 

[Wurger]

Mainly due to a serious lack of proper machine tools, who had to be imported, e.g. from Germany.

 

[Johnbr]

History.
1. Turbo-jets. Japanese jet development began in 1942. Initial work was done by the First Air Technical Arsenal and employed centrifugal compressors. The first of these was undesignated but served as a prototype for the TR 10. The TR 10 produced 770 lbs. thrust and was to be used in the twin-engined "anti invasion" bomber Kikka. The TR 12 was the next of the series and represented an improved TR 10 with four axial compressor stages added; thus following a compressor development pattern similar to German Heinkel Hirth engines. The TR712 was considered to be too heavy. The TR 12B followed with a weight of 770 lbs. This latter engine was abandoned in March 1945 in favor of the Ne-20. It was found that the TR 12B lagged considerably behind the development of the Kikka airframe. About 40 of these engines were fabricated.(Figure 15).
The TR 30 was an enlarged TR 12B and two TR 30's were to be installed in Keiun, a reconnaissance plane. The TR¬30 was also abandoned in favor of the Ne-20 in December 1944. (Figures 10 and 11).
In May 1944 photographs of the BMW 003 arrived by submarine. A companion sub containing production drawings was sunk enroute. From the 003 photo prints evolved four engines, the Ne-20 by the Air Technical Arsenal, the Ne 130 by Ishikawajima, the Ne 230 by Hitachi and the Ne 330 by Mitsubishi.
The Ne-20 is about a three quarter sized 003 and was ready for production in the summer of 1945. (Figures 1 7). It was flight tested successfully in Kikka in August 1945. The Ne-20 was also destined for the Oka 43 (Baka). (Figures 8 and 9). Nine engines were built by the Air Technical Arsenal and 12 by the Yokosuka Navy Yard. This latter agency was to be the manufacturer of the Ne-20. To date only two Ne-20's have been recovered.
Of the three reciprocating engine manufacturers experimenting in turbojets, Ishikawajima probably was in a better position than Hitachi or Mitsubishi due to the latters' production commitments for conventional engines. In addition to the Ne 130, Ishikawajima also designed the Ne 140 and the GTPR. The Ne 140 was a larger engine than the Ne 130 and served as a prototype for it. The Ne 130 compares more closely in performance to the BMW 003 than any other Japanese turbo jet. The Army was interested in the Ne 130 for use in Koryu. The GTPR (Gas Turbine Propeller Rocket) was an ambitious propeller gas turbine design originally involving a 19 stage axial flow compressor, four combustion chambers and a three stage turbine. (Figures 12 14). A later GTPR design was promulgated with a 12 stage axial compressor with a 4:1 pressure ratio, 5 stage turbine and an annular combustion chamber of the BMW type employing 12 burners. The engine rpm was to be 5000 and the propeller rpm 1500. The prop reduction was to be of the double helical spur type. The length was estimated at 18 ft, diameter 31.5 inches and weight 5500 lbs. Estimated sea level power was 3500 bhp delivered to the propeller and 1500 equivalent jet thrust bhp at 373 mph. Operating temperatures were expected to be 1290 F. combustion chamber and 840 F. tail pipe. The GTPR was destined for a large low speed, low altitude airplane. Research on the GTPR was terminated in August 1944 probably since it was a rather long range project, although some component testing was done.
The Ne 130, Ne 230 and Ne 330 were in approximately the same state of development at the war's end. One model of the Ne 130 was produced but was destroyed on bench test. The Ne 230 was also completed and was under test by the Navy at Takahagi. The Ne 330 was almost completed but work was terminated due to air raid damage. The best of the three above engines was to be used in Keiun.
2. Campini type engines. Early Japanese jet propulsion efforts were directed along the lines of the Campini system. Documents recovered in 1942 show that this type of engine was being investigated at that time.
As a stop gap between the Oka 11 (Baka with solid propellant rockets) and the Oka 43 for the Ne-20, the Oka 22 with the TSU 11 Campini type engine was developed by the Air Technical Arsenal. (Figures 16 and 17). The TSU 11 is a Hatsukaze 11 four cylinder inverted in line air cooled engine driving a single stage axial compressor. The Hatsukaze is rated at 150 bhp at 3000 rpm. The compressor is geared up 3:1 and rotates at 9000 rpm. The compressor wheel is 21.3 inches in diameter with an effective blade height of 3.8 inches. Four fuel burners are located aft of the compressor to provide afterburning. Three TSU 11 engines were built.
Flight tests were made in 1944 using the TSU 11 as a booster for Frances. One successful flight of an Oka 22 was made in July 1945, the Oka 22 being launched from a Frances.
Hitachi began manufacturing of the the TSU 11 in June 1945 and was also experimenting with a similar type of power plant. This latter was designated the M.T.P.R. and consisted of a combination propeller reciprocating Atsuta engine and turbo jet. Part of the reciprocating engine power was transmitted to the compressor of the turbo jet. This project was abandoned in August 1944 in favor of the Ne 230.
3. Miscellaneous engines. The Air Technical Arsenal tried various other types of jet engines. These were the KR 10 (TOKU RO2) bi fuel rocket, the Ka 10 intermittent jet, and a Pescara type free piston compressor design study. The KR 10 is apparently a copy of the German Walther R 211 rocket engine used in the ME 163. (Figures 18 and 19). The KR 10 is installed in the Shusui which is very similar to the ME 163. (Figure 20). German sources state that complete ME 163 plans were turned over to the Japanese about a year before their surrender. The Japanese experienced the same difficulties in producing “T Stoff" (hydrogen peroxide) and "C Stoff" (hydrazine methanol¬-catalyst) fuels as did the Germans. The engines were put into production in July 1945. Shusui made one flight in July 1945 but crashed due to probable fuel feed failure.
The KR 10 develops 3300 lbs. thrust for 4 minutes and weighs 375 lbs. A description of this engine will not be made here due to the similarity of KR 10 to the German engine.
The KA 10 intermittent jet is also borrowed from the German designs, namely the Argus As 0014 "V 1" engine. '(Figure 21). The only departure in design from the As 0014 is the expansion chamber aft of the valve matrix. 288 fuel nozzles are used in this matrix. 990 lbs. thrust were obtained on the test stand with a 2.6 lbs/hr lb.thrust specific fuel consumption. The KA 10 was to be used in the Baika aircraft.
No information is available on the free piston compressor system other than it was destined for a large aircraft and the project was abandoned in August 1944.
late".
http://www.airpages.ru/eng/jp/ki2.shtml

 

[Johnbr]

TR30(ne-12) Jet Engine

 

[Johnbr]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/8ee4mb/photograph_of_japans_ne30_experimental_turbojet/