Israel's Iron Spade Counter Tunnel System

[bobbymike]

Sorry article is very sparce on details but appears to be sensors and robots to dig out and destroy tunnels ??

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/iron-spade-israels-new-weapon-against-hamas-terror-tunnels-1461480

 

[Antonio]

It shouldn't be very difficult to develop a robot with a mix of sismic and thermal sensors to locate the targets. Terminators are coming to reallity.

 

[Hot Breath]

Why not just do what they did in WWI and use camouflettes (?sp) - explosive charges to cause cave ins in the tunnels? They could even use some of their clandestine nuclear warheads to cause all the tunnels to collapse. It would be a good way of getting rid of them.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Setting off a nuke would hardly go un-noticed. However, I fully support technologies that detect ongoing tunneling, drill into them and then pump them full of high-pressure untreated sewage. It'd be a win-win: drowns the tunnelers, lets you know where the entrance is (because that's where the poogeyser comes shooting out), and it allows you to get rid of waste without having to process it.

 

[Hot Breath]

So, who's going to protest about the nukes? It's done on/under Israel. Affects no one and destroys all the tunnels which are illegal anyway. A few Israeli buildings collapse, a few Gazan buildings collapse. Just "collateral damage".

 

[bobbymike]

Setting off a nuke would hardly go un-noticed. However, I fully support technologies that detect ongoing tunneling, drill into them and then pump them full of high-pressure untreated sewage. It'd be a win-win: drowns the tunnelers, lets you know where the entrance is (because that's where the poogeyser comes shooting out), and it allows you to get rid of waste without having to process it.

OBB always have the best 'right to the point' solutions!

 

[Orionblamblam]

So, who's going to protest about the nukes? It's done on/under Israel. Affects no one and destroys all the tunnels which are illegal anyway. A few Israeli buildings collapse, a few Gazan buildings collapse. Just "collateral damage".

Yeah... no.

 

[Hot Breath]

So, who's going to protest about the nukes? It's done on/under Israel. Affects no one and destroys all the tunnels which are illegal anyway. A few Israeli buildings collapse, a few Gazan buildings collapse. Just "collateral damage".

Yeah... no.

Why not? If it is done under Israeli territory, the shockwaves will still destroy the tunnels under Gaza. I thought that was the objective? Who cares if a few Hamas diggers are suffocated. Surely not you? If a few buildings collapse, they can be rebuilt. It's a small price to pay for Israeli safety surely?

 

[bobbymike]

So, who's going to protest about the nukes? It's done on/under Israel. Affects no one and destroys all the tunnels which are illegal anyway. A few Israeli buildings collapse, a few Gazan buildings collapse. Just "collateral damage".

Yeah... no.

Why not? If it is done under Israeli territory, the shockwaves will still destroy the tunnels under Gaza. I thought that was the objective? Who cares if a few Hamas diggers are suffocated. Surely not you? If a few buildings collapse, they can be rebuilt. It's a small price to pay for Israeli safety surely?

1) Because it is totally not necessary
2) Israel is already told it responds disproportionately to terror attacks
3) Setting off a nuke is just the excuse the world's anti-Semites need to condemn Israel forever and ever
4) And probably a million more reasons

 

[Orionblamblam]

1) Because it is totally not necessary
2) Israel is already told it responds disproportionately to terror attacks
3) Setting off a nuke is just the excuse the world's anti-Semites need to condemn Israel forever and ever
4) And probably a million more reasons

...
∞) Nukes are expensive. If you're going to use one... use it to full effect, not just to shake up some tunnels.


Fun idea: develop a tunnel-finding bot. Use one on an active tunnel. Surprise the tunnelers with a hose that suddenly pops in through the roof which sprays them with pure, clean water. Kidnap a few of the tunnelers when they run, but don't get caught doing it. Then spread a rumor that the spray included ebola, and that the tunnelers who vanished must have fallen sick and are being hidden away by Hamas. Instantly slam closed *all* border crossings between Israel and Gaza. Israeli government actively and vociferously denies that they had anything to do with intentionally infecting anyone with ebola (the fact that this is, in fact, the Odin's-honest truth would make the lie just that much more believable). At the same time, the Israeli government starts mass producing ZMapp and other anti-ebola meds, stockpiling biohazard suits, etc.

 

[jsport]

Israel’s underground Sensory Concrete Barrier exposes tunnel for first time

Israel has used a combination of new technologies as well as intelligence and surveillance methods to identify and destroy up to 20 tunnels since 2014.

www.c4isrnet.com

 

[Big_Zukini]

I'm surprised no real new information has been published since the war started. I'm guessing the IDF is keeping its tunnel warfare technologies close to its chest.
But whatever they're using, it seems to work. Really well even. During the ground incursion into Lebanon last September, the IDF managed to find a large number of tunnels in a fairly short time. I'm assuming those found via methods of remote reconnaissance were largely destroyed to reduce the risk to ground troops. Locating them is particularly difficult because of the terrain in southern Lebanon. Hills, forests, non-uniform horizontal construction, abundant vegetation, and distributed population.

During my service I stumbled upon a study on algorithms related to a specific tunnel mapping project. From there it was apparent to me that the IDF was seeking, at the time, a very wide range of solutions, rather than a small set of robust ones.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Anti-tunneling procedures based on vibration during excavation were already used in Israel during Vespasian's war. A network of cheap seismometers with cross-references would be enough to detect intruders. There are new technologies to detect underground cavities using detectors of the electrical permeability of the ground and emitters of high and low frequency sound waves used to expel digging animals from our gardens. Detecting is easy as was demonstrated in Lebanon, but there were no hostages inside the tunnels there, the problem is humanitarian.

 

[Big_Zukini]

Anti-tunneling procedures based on vibration during excavation were already used in Israel during Vespasian's war. A network of cheap seismometers with cross-references would be enough to detect intruders. There are new technologies to detect underground cavities using detectors of the electrical permeability of the ground and emitters of high and low frequency sound waves used to expel digging animals from our gardens. Detecting is easy as was demonstrated in Lebanon, but there were no hostages inside the tunnels there, the problem is humanitarian.

These, particularly seismometers and some other classified (but quite basic) methods, allow easy detection of tunnels along an established perimeter like a border fence, and more precisely their construction. But the real tunnel city was well inside enemy territory. There you have to detect tunnels as quickly as your ground forces are advancing, and it doesn't help that these tunnels are reinforced with concrete which reduces human movement noise. Realistically that's not really possible. Troops take it slowly when they feel like they need to properly scope out an area. But you don't want your detection array to be too much of a delaying factor.
Tunnels are tens of meters below ground, and at the same time you have all the noise coming from tanks and APCs, close combat, artillery, and JDAMs. So low power or cheap devices will be of limited use.

I won't be surprised if some years from now they'll talk about doing special pauses to increase detection accuracy.