Hawker Tornado Prototypes & Projects

[Justo Miranda]

The aircraft had a belly-mounted radiator fairing that generated buffeting and excessive drag when the airplane flying near 400 mph, the prototype was painted in standard Dark Earth/Dark Green ‘Type B’ camouflage pattern, with Black/White Special Recognition Markings undersurfaces.

P5219 technical data

Power plant: one 1,760 hp Rolls-Royce X-24 Vulture Mk.II, 24-cylinder ‘X’, liquid-cooled engine driving a three-bladed de Havilland airscrew, wingspan: 41.8 ft (12.74 m), length: 32.7 ft (9.98 m), height: 14.6 ft (4.46 m), wing area: 283 sq. ft. (25.47 sq.m), maximum speed: 425 mph at 23,000 ft, maximum weight: 10,670 lbs (4,834 kg), armament: none.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Thanks mate, you do indeed, rock on.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Thanks mate, you do indeed, rock on.

 

[VictorXL188]

As Justo mentioned above, the first Tornado prototype featured the split light/dark under surface scheme. This three quarter view probably shows this slightly better than the first pic. Source for this was a scan of an original photo which was in the archives of Aerospace Publishing, my previous employers!

 

[Conspirator]

this is pretty much the updated version of the hawker hurricane right?

 

[Zizi6785]

 

[Justo Miranda]

this is pretty much the updated version of the hawker hurricane right?

On steroids

 

[Conspirator]

wow okay that

this is pretty much the updated version of the hawker hurricane right?

On steroids

makes so much more sense. now if only they had forced induction to help with the service cieling and performance

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hawker Tornado second prototype P5224, third prototype HG641 and pre-production aircraft R7936

 

[Conspirator]

Hawker Tornado second prototype P5224, third prototype HG641 and pre-production aircraft R7936

this is great stuff but i dont under stand why they put the guns toward the ends of the wings, the closer you put them to the fuselage the better the roll capabilities but in this production they put them almost the middle. interesting. but... it is smart that they put the armour plates over the weapons to prevent malfunction of the weapons during a "dogfight". the third prototype seems the most meneuverable but the guns are on the outside of the gear and that 1uts stress on the wings 2: makes it less meneuverable. it all counts on the CG

 

[robunos]

The guns are placed outboard of the propeller arc, that way they don't need synchronisation gear. That means less weight, less mechanical complication (which means more reliability), and a higher rate of fire. Also, depending on the design of the gun, it may be difficult, or effectively impossible, to synchronise, so they couldn't be mounted inboard anyway . . .

cheers,
Robin.

 

[kaiserd]

this is pretty much the updated version of the hawker hurricane right?

The Tornado was (with some relatively minor differences) the same airframe as the Typhoon but with a different engine (Vulture versus Sabre).
So some general family resemblance to the Hurricane given Hawker/Camm inheritance but very much not the same design (extremely close to the Typhoon, still considerable closer to the later Tempest than to the earlier Hurricane).

Hawker Tornado

Rolls-Royce Vulture-powered sibling of the Sabre-powered Typhoon.

www.baesystems.com

 

[kaiserd]

Hawker Tornado second prototype P5224, third prototype HG641 and pre-production aircraft R7936

this is great stuff but i dont under stand why they put the guns toward the ends of the wings, the closer you put them to the fuselage the better the roll capabilities but in this production they put them almost the middle. interesting. but... it is smart that they put the armour plates over the weapons to prevent malfunction of the weapons during a "dogfight". the third prototype seems the most meneuverable but the guns are on the outside of the gear and that 1uts stress on the wings 2: makes it less meneuverable. it all counts on the CG

Further to other preceding feedback I’d just add the same apparent “logic” could be applied to the large majority of UK and US WW2 fighter aircraft that didn’t use synchronised guns (and some of those that did but then moved away from doing so in later versions).

 

[DWG]

"(extremely close to the Typhoon, still considerable closer to the later Tempest than to the earlier Hurricane)."

Tornado and Typhoon are so close you might as well think of them as the same aircraft with different engines. The only thing that stopped their development proceeding in lockstep were the problems with the Vulture.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Could some of those Manxhester/Vulture engine problems have been airframe oriented. They were quite closely cowled on the Manchester iirc.

 

[DWG]

Could some of those Manxhester/Vulture engine problems have been airframe oriented. They were quite closely cowled on the Manchester iirc.

AIUI it wasn't so much the cowling as the continuous power demand from the aircraft. The Manchester needed high power continuously, the Tornado didn't (and would be flying shorter missions). ISTR the Vulture was pretty much working reliably for Tornado at the point it was cancelled.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Thanks mate.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Tornado second prototype (P5224) three side view drawing.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft21730.htm

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Production mdel R7936 with contra rotating propeller and the Centaurus test-bed Tornado HG641 (the third prototype).

 

[blackkite]

Hi! The third prototype HG641.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/tornado-radial-engine-jpg.656895/
https://www.baesystems.com/en/heritage/hawker-tornado

"Before the contract was cancelled however, a third prototype was completed (HG641) which was constructed using surplus wings and fuselage components and fitted with an example of Bristol’s powerful brand-new 18-cylinder Centaurus sleeve-valve radial engine of 2,210 hp.

This aircraft made its first flight on 23rd October 1941 but problems with the engine’s cowling design led to various modifications and eventually an entirely new cowling design with twin exhausts.
Despite the third prototype (HG641) reaching speeds of more than 400 mph at 18,000ft with the Centaurus engine, its wing was too thick to capitalise on the engine’s increased power. As a result, when a thin-winged version of the Typhoon was developed as the Tempest prototype, the order that had been placed for six pre-production Centaurus-powered Tornadoes was cancelled in late 1942."

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
https://oldmachinepress.com/2020/12/20/hawker-tornado-fighter/

"The Centaurus Tornado was assigned serial number HG641. The aircraft was built by Hawker at Langley using components from uncompleted Tornado production airframes and a new center fuselage. The Centaurus engine turned a 12 ft 9 in (3.89 m) diameter, three-blade, Rotol propeller and was covered by a conventional cowling. Exhaust from the engine was expelled via a single manifold protruding from the cowling under the left side of the engine. An oil cooler was mounted between the wells for the main landing gear. The air-cooled radial reduced the aircraft’s weight by about 350 lb (159 kg). Lucas took the Centaurus Tornado up for its first flight on 23 October 1941."

"Initial flight tests of HG641 indicated that airflow through the oil cooler was not efficient and led to the engine running near its upper temperature limit. Even so, a speed of 378 mph (608 km/h) was recorded at 20,000 ft (6,096 m). The oil cooler was modified, and testing continued until December 1941. At that time, the aircraft was modified to improve the installation of the engine package, including exhaust and oil cooler. The cowling was revised, and a new oil cooler duct was faired into the lower cowling. Two exhaust stacks were incorporated into the left and right sides of the fairing. A four-blade propeller, also 12 ft 9 in (3.89 m) diameter, was installed, and the modified Centaurus Tornado took its first flight on 23 December 1942, piloted by Lucas. Cooling was improved, and the aircraft achieved 403 mph (649 km/h) at 22,000 ft (6,706 m) and had a ceiling of 32,800 ft (9,997 m). In February 1943, the aircraft was transferred to Bristol’s facility in Filton, where a speed of 412 mph (663 km/h) at 18,000 ft (5,486 m) was reportedly recorded. The Centaurus Tornado continued engine testing until August 1944, when the aircraft was scrapped."

 

[Schneiderman]

It is interesting that every drawing and artwork that has been produced of P5219 in its initial configuration omits the air intake for the engine. The Vulture had a downdraught carburettor system and hence the intake was above the engine on the top of the cowling. If you look carefully at image 205 in the first posting, the image from Matt Willis' collection, it is just visible nearly, but not quite, flush with the top of the nose. Of course in the later upgrade, with the forward position of the radiator, the intake has been extended forward and is much more obvious,

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvRib_7kMu0

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
https://oldmachinepress.com/2021/01/05/rolls-royce-vulture-x-24-aircraft-engine/

 

[Caravellarella]

So, dear Boys & Girls, in comparison to the Typhoon, did the Tornado have a fuselage that was 3 inches deeper throughout or was the wing just mounted 3 inches lower/further down on the Tornado's fuselage?

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Lucio]

So, dear Boys & Girls, in comparison to the Typhoon, did the Tornado have a fuselage that was 3 inches deeper throughout or was the wing just mounted 3 inches lower/further down on the Tornado's fuselage?

Terry (Caravellarella)

The wing was mounted 3 inches lower in the fuselage in the Vulture-powered prototypes but I'm not sure about the Centaurus one.
Lúcio

 

[PabloSniper]

This version seems to have good aerodynamics.

 

[Arjen]

The Tornado's radiator was moved forward to cure high drag rise due to uneven air-flow at ±400 mph around the ventral radiator.

As was pointed out by OP in #1:

The aircraft had a belly-mounted radiator fairing that generated buffeting and excessive drag when the airplane flying near 400 mph

Eyeballing images is a bad way to determine aerodynamic efficiency.