Hawker Siddeley models from Manchester museum

Mike Pryce

Mike Pryce

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Two pics of wind tunnel models found at Manchester Museum of Science and Industry

HS Kingston P.1201 for AST.403. Featured in BSP Fighters, with a butterfly tail. This is an alternative version - sorry, no dash number.

Also what I think was one version of (there were a lot!) the Hawker Siddeley Advanced Projects Group APG 1019. Wrote down what the label says and then lost it, so could be wrong. Any more info on this?
 

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According to some notes I have dug out first pic is P.1201-1. The butterfly tail was on P.1201-2 and subsequent dash numbers.

Just found been told second pic is of HS APD 1034S. It will feature in BSP 4. Thanks!
 
Your not in manchester are you Mike ?

BTW there is also another wind tunnel model for the VG supersonic Airliner

G
 
Geoff

No, just visited in the summer.

I saw another model of a 'Concorde' like APG project, but the picture did not come out as it is very gloomy and the model is black. But irt was not VG. Perhaps they have more models and circulate them.
 
harrier said:
Also what I think was one version of (there were a lot!) the Hawker Siddeley Advanced Projects Group APG 1019. Wrote down what the label says and then lost it, so could be wrong. Any more info on this?
Click to expand...

Edit: Eh, I just realised that you already wrote that it really is HS 1034S. So here is additional info:
 

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Yep, that's it! Where did this come from?

Edit (after seeing more than first pic): Ah, from the brochure!

Very interesting stuff! Where does the brochure come from? Archive? Ebay?
 
Matej said:
Edit: Eh, I just realised that you already wrote that it really is HS 1034S. So here is additional info:
Click to expand...

The spiral bound pages in question have been kicking around the internet for a year or two. I really don't know what to make of this project. Perhaps the new book will clarify the matter.
 
Nice find my dear Zebedee,

the first one maybe related or it was Boeing 2707 ?.
 
OK my dear Zebedee,

but to be clear,it was from the second series,which called HS,APD or APG.
 
Models have a rough time when Museums or companies close. Countless models have ended up in skips over the years because they are written off as assets against tax.
The worst is yet to come. A number of private collections in the UK and US will be auctioned in the next few years as their owners leave us. Sadly they are likely to be dispersed into homes all over the world rather than go on display in South Kensington or the Smithsonian.
 
zebedee said:
Given that the majority of the main items on display at the Museum were on loan the possibility that these will return to their original owners or find new homes is high... I've dropped them a line, will report back on any news.

Zeb
Click to expand...
Is there a paper archive there or just the display items?
 
Not directly relevant to this thread but I do have concerns at the way in which key information is scattered around multiple archives and collections with only the scantest of cataloguing. The initiative at

www.aviationarchives.uk

Taking Off - the AAAI blog

Blog - latest news about the Aviation and Aerospace Archives Initiative
www.aviationarchives.uk www.aviationarchives.uk

is a good first step to draw everything together but does not appear to be making much progress, not least because, as professional archivists, they are overly focussed on how a catalogue should be constructed and less so on locating material held in small archives. I hope anything from MOSI that may need to be moved is adequately protected from the 'bin-it' brigade.
 
So apparently the Shackleton is moving to the AVRO heritage centre in Stockport, and I'm wondering if the Avro 707 will join it. I reckon somewhere like Cosford or even Duxford will take the EE P.1A, or rather I'm hoping so, as it deserves high quality regular maintenance in an indoor space.
 
Torchwood1997 said:
So apparently the Shackleton is moving to the AVRO heritage centre in Stockport, and I'm wondering if the Avro 707 will join it. I reckon somewhere like Cosford or even Duxford will take the EE P.1A, or rather I'm hoping so, as it deserves high quality regular maintenance in an indoor space.
Click to expand...
I believe the Boscombe Down Heritage collection are having the 707 and P1A.
 
Unsubstantiated rumour has it that the Avro Heritage folks are going to be getting the former BAe/CAE simulator building next to the museum for the Shackleton (aka 'Dougal')... Boscombe Down Collection have confirmed they are getting the 707 and P1A, Belvedere is going to the International Helicopter Museum. the aircraft on loan from The Aircraft Collection (Rapide, Avian, Roe 1 replica and Benson) going back to Hooton Park, and the Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka heading to Pima...

Zeb
 
Small update on the dispersal of the museum exhibits. Airframes on loan from The Aircraft Collection have returned to Hooton Park and have been reassembled. P1A, 707, Belvedere and Shackleton remain on site with dismantling progressing on the 707 and Shackleton. Shackleton likely to move to Woodford in the near future however no definite hanger plans have been confirmed so likely to be in the open for a while.

Zeb
 
HS P.1033 - I couldn't find it in any of the BSP books or Hawker Aircraft since 1920. It does look suspiciously like a swing wing SST. Does anyone have, or can they point me to, any more info on this project?
 
Nick Sumner said:
HS P.1033 - I couldn't find it in any of the BSP books or Hawker Aircraft since 1920. It does look suspiciously like a swing wing SST. Does anyone have, or can they point me to, any more info on this project?
Click to expand...
Tony Butlers excellent book Building Concorde might have some info, If I remember it was one of HSA's Advanced Project Group design studies that included the HSA Type 1011

Zeb
 
Last edited:
Another update on the exhibits. GJD Services have dismantled the Shackleton and moved the airframe back home to Woodford, in the words of the Museum "She’s nicely tucked up snug indoors." Long term plan is for a new building to keep it undercover and accommodate further airframes. My money is still on them taking over the old BAe/CAE simulator building next door...

Belvedere is back home at the International Helicopter Museum where it will go on display with the museum's existing incomplete example.

Zeb
 
Nick Sumner said:
HS P.1033 - I couldn't find it in any of the BSP books or Hawker Aircraft since 1920. It does look suspiciously like a swing wing SST. Does anyone have, or can they point me to, any more info on this project?
Click to expand...
The APG 1033 was a hypersonic airliner project. As far as I remember, quite a few different configurations were studied, from vaguely Concorde-like to waveriders. Afraid I don't have any documents.
 
Sorry... I was a little premature... the last item, the nose of Trident 3 G-AWZP, left yesterday (10/2/2022) for the deHavilland Museum at London Colney...

Had absolutely no luck with the museum as to the whereabouts of the models so asked GJD Services who were moving the airframes and their understanding is that everything else either went back to their original owners or back into store with the Science Museum at Wroughton...

Zeb
 
Small update. Visited The Aircraft Collection at Hooton Park to catch up with a few of former exhibits from MOSI, the Rapide and Avian. Both are displayed in much happier surroundings that are much more conducive to photography!

Zeb



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DSCF2321 by Martin Winchester, on Flickr
 

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