Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed

[uk 75]

Harrier in particular


The three view drawings published for the HS 1154 do not seem to show the final version at cancellation or the two seater.


I think your Air Britain article published the two seater, but not the single seater?


I would still love to see a book on this plane

 

[uk 75]

Just purchased the new edition of Tony B's excellent Secret projects book on British fighters.
I was hoping to find a three view of the final version of the P1154RAF, but again the standard
three view is used of the variant just before with different cockpit glazing for example.
Also, the various iterations of the P1154RN are described, but are not illustrated. I have various
drawings of these from different sources, but it would be nice to have them in one place.
Michael Pryce is the expert on this subject, but there must be sources that could be drawn together.

 

[hesham]

Not 3-view,but I don't know if this a final version or not ?.

 

[thefrecklepuny]

Hmmm, catapult launched AND STOVL? I guess the main advantage would be no need for arrestor wires making recovery simpler.

 

[uk 75]

The main variants of the P1154 RN are always
randomly illustrated. I thnk Hesham's is the
bicycle version intended to be more common
for both services.
I am sure that Michael Pryce has the final variant
of the P1154RAF

 

[LowObservable]

IIRC, from way back: RN required F-4-like performance and attributes (two seats, big radar) that were beyond what could be done with STO, particularly given that the ski-jump had not been invented. So CATOVL (to coin a phrase) was essential.

Of course what the RN really really meant was "we want the F-4" but nobody was listening.

 

[uk 75]

Here are the main variants of the P1154 starting with the Joint Service and finishing with the
RAF version as it looked at cancellation, for which no three view exists.
Note the bicycle and tricycle RN variants

 

[hesham]

Nice find UK 75.

 

[uk 75]

Thanks Hesham
The problem is that they are all copyrighted to someone and I can appreciate why
authors cannot use them in a book. However, given the importance the of P1154
I find it sad that modern books cannot be bothered to get new drawings done to
illustrate this simple ladder, as I have done. Back in the 70s and 80s this was
done, but again the illustrations never seemed to match the text.

 

[uk 75]

JFC Lowobservable
Every book that mentions P1154RN points out the
Phantom story. What I object to is shelling out
for a book and getting incomplete illustrations of the
key variants when as I demonstrate above they could
be redrawn to avoid copyright. Can you address that point.

 

[TsrJoe]

might be worth contacting the archivist at Brooklands to arrange copies of the actual project drawings of P.1154 development

 

[Mike Pryce]

Harrier in particular


The three view drawings published for the HS 1154 do not seem to show the final version at cancellation or the two seater.


I think your Air Britain article published the two seater, but not the single seater?


I would still love to see a book on this plane

The two-seater GA was in that article, but not the version on the website (http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/history_p1154.htm). The latest single seat GA I have seen (inc. all at Brooklands) is the one in the 2nd Ed. 1986 Project Cancelled, from Aug. '64. two seat was Nov. and windscreen had lost vertical frames and a tail bumper was added. GAs were done for brochures, and these were the last ones of those.

By late '64 the design was changing as drawings were issued to the shops, and mods became apparent from wind tunnel tests (probably needing a change to the tailplane). There is no final GA of the version in the jigs that I have seen.

 

[uk 75]

Harrier
Thank you for this very detailed account.
It iis still a shame that all the currently
published books which refer to P1154
do not have the ga drawings that would
match, rather than the scant ones used.
Please do us a definitive book on P1154,
especially with the current row over UK F35
procurement.

 

[TsrJoe]

id second a call for a monograph on the P.1154 Harrier, i'm sure it would prove a very popular subject to cover in similar vein to the previous volumes we have seen on the P.1216 and P.1121

B)

 

[GTX]

id second a call for a monograph on the P.1154 Harrier, i'm sure it would prove a very popular subject to cover in similar vein to the previous volumes we have seen on the P.1216 and P.1121

B)

Thirded!

 

[CJGibson]

Right then, lads and lassies, I have an ISBN that didn't get used, so all I'll need is the words and pictures, so get after it.

Chris

 

[newsdeskdan]

Right then, lads and lassies, I have an ISBN that didn't get used, so all I'll need is the words and pictures, so get after it.

Chris

It's a difficult one. There are certainly some who possess sufficient material with which to compose a passable account of the P 1154's history. However, Michael Pryce would undoubtedly do a better job than anyone else and I have long hoped that one day he will do so.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I have copies of all the relevant pages from the Hawker day diaries for P.1154 and a few Barrie Hygate and original Hawker drawings. I was hoping Mike would do it, perhaps (given his workload) a collaboration with someone else like Dan?

 

[Mike Pryce]

Michael Pryce would undoubtedly do a better job than anyone else

Aww, shucks :-*, and on a day off too so I can reply (if I ignore kids fighting over trains!)

I am working on several things - academic papers and a book that will be for a more general readership. As ever, it's me so it's jump jets, and 1154 will feature. I have dug out a lot more stuff - wait til you see the 1154 + Lockheed A-11 effort. Mach 3 STOVL.

The problem with the 1154 is everyone focuses on GAs, rather than what was done. The final RAF version had hundreds of thousands of design and build hours on it, the RN version a few folks for a few weeks. And yet the RN one pops up everywhere. The Aeromilitaria article was my attempt to get the emphasis right.

Extending that approach to the book, which is sort of 'TSR.2 to JSF' while channelling Walter Vincenti* is the work of this summer. Stay tooned!

*: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Engineers_Know_and_How_They_Know_It

 

[Arjen]

I am working on several things - academic papers and a book that will be for a more general readership. As ever, it's me so it's jump jets, and 1154 will feature. I have dug out a lot more stuff - wait til you see the 1154 + Lockheed A-11 effort. Mach 3 STOVL.
[...]
Extending that approach to the book, which is sort of 'TSR.2 to JSF' while channelling Walter Vincenti* is the work of this summer. Stay tooned

A more general readership: by the look of it - that includes ME.
Any idea about when it will be published?

 

[Mike Pryce]

Need to get nearer final manuscript before date is known.

 

[sferrin]

wait til you see the 1154 + Lockheed A-11 effort. Mach 3 STOVL.

 

[Mike Pryce]

Looking back it seems nuts. At the time it seemed like the future. Understanding why, in both instances, casts light on other projects (like 1154) at the time, and on others since.