Grumman G-xxx turboprop Albatross

boxkite

boxkite

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I’m looking for the Grumman design number of this ”Albatross“ turboprop conversion. I only know it’s NOT the G-305 (another proposed four-engined turboprop flying-boat for ASW duties from 1961). Any idea of the G-xxx number?

SOURCE: “Der Flieger“ 11/1968
 

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boxkite said:
I’m looking for the Grumman design number of this ”Albatross“ turboprop conversion. I only know it’s NOT the G-305 (another proposed four-engined turboprop flying-boat for ASW duties from 1961). Any idea of the G-xxx number?

SOURCE: “Der Flieger“ 11/1968
Click to expand...

Four engines?

It doesn't surprise me, because four 750hp PT6 category turboprops were cheaper and lighter than a pair of Darts or T55s.

I do wonder what engines were being considered?
 
Dear boxkite,

I don't know that design now,and I will research about it for you,but
the ASW design was G-251.
 
For comparison, this is the mentioned G-305 from René Francillon’s “Grumman Aircraft since 1929” (Putnam), powered by four GE T64-GE-4.

Hesham, I only know of the existence of a projected G-215 (Nov 1959). Please, more detailed information on the G-251.
 

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My dear boxkite,

I will search about it to you,there are some Albatross designs:

G-191 Albatross for Germany.
G-231 ,, (CSR-110) for Canada.
G-234 ,, for USCG (UF-2G) and Argentina.
G-262 ,, for Japan.
 
Dear boxkite,

The Grumman G-251 was a version of G-231, which also entered service
with USCG,but I have not any picture,the only I find was for G-231,which
called G-111-2
 

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Dear boxkite,

the G-231 was also used as ASW aircraft for USCG and its variants
were G-234,G-270 and G-288, but I have no details.
 
boxkite said:
For comparison, this is the mentioned G-305 from René Francillon’s “Grumman Aircraft since 1929” (Putnam), powered by four GE T64-GE-4.

Hesham, I only know of the existence of a projected G-215 (Nov 1959). Please, more detailed information on the G-251.
Click to expand...

The info about G-305.
 

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Could that Der Flieger image represent the unbuilt Frakes proposal to refit the Albatross with four 1,000 shp PT6As?

American Flying Boats and Amphibious Aircraft (pg 243) also mentions a proposal to re-engine the Albatross with four 1,100 shp Garrett TPE331s but doesn't name the company involved.
 
TinWing said:
boxkite said:
I’m looking for the Grumman design number of this ”Albatross“ turboprop conversion. I only know it’s NOT the G-305 (another proposed four-engined turboprop flying-boat for ASW duties from 1961). Any idea of the G-xxx number?

SOURCE: “Der Flieger“ 11/1968
Click to expand...

Four engines?

It doesn't surprise me, because four 750hp PT6 category turboprops were cheaper and lighter than a pair of Darts or T55s.

I do wonder what engines were being considered?
Click to expand...

Could this have been a planned development aircraft for the Shin-Meiwa US-1/PS-1? I seem to remember that they used a Grumman Albatros to test hull designs.
 
Apophenia said:
Could that Der Flieger image represent the unbuilt Frakes proposal to refit the Albatross with four 1,000 shp PT6As?

American Flying Boats and Amphibious Aircraft (pg 243) also mentions a proposal to re-engine the Albatross with four 1,100 shp Garrett TPE331s but doesn't name the company involved.
Click to expand...

Also avoid confusing Turbo-Albatross with the 5 Turbo-Mallards that Chalks Airlines flew out of Fort Laudrdale, Florida for many years. Chalks' Turbo-Mallard conversions only sported a pair of PT-6A engines. Sadly, Chalks' fleet of Mallards was grounded after a crash that was blamed on wing spars. Wing spars were cracked by metal fatigue or corrosion or a combination of the two.

Only a related note: did any military users hang Westinghouse J34 booster jets under their Albatross (similar to booster engines on P2 and C123)?
 
Last edited:
Yes, the 12 Grumman-Frakes G73T Turbo Mallard conversions predate Frakes' turbine Albatross proposal.

Flight mentions Chalk's desire for an Albatross turboprop conversion in Oct 1983. Airliners.net gives a date of 1986 for Frakes International's re-engined Albatrosses. Airliners.net repeats online mentions of unnumbered PT6As or "PW-120" turboprops. Can anyone confirm that PW120 proposal?

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1983/1983%20-%201832.PDF
http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/grumman-g-64111-albatross/233
 
New version being offered - see attached.
 

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From Aviation magazine 1975.
 

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Attached is a chapter from Wayne Mutza's "Grumman Albatross: A History of the Legendary Seaplane" that discusses the turboprop Albatross.
 

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Good Day All -

From the Matt Rodina collection, a xerox copy of a proposed 4 PT6A powered Albatross. Based on the radar nose and interior arrangement, this is not the Frakes 4 engine proposal but may likely be the Grumman proposal.

I have a Frakes proposal summary for a 4 engined Albatross, date September 1985, addressed to a Michael Braunstein. This proposal is from Matt's collection and outlines a program where Frakes teams up with P&W Aircraft of Canada that lists four engine options - PT-6A-34, PT6A-42 and PT6A-61 and a twin engine option using the PW120. Interestingly, that is the only mention of the PW120 in the proposal - all the performance curves in the proposal are for the three PT-6A options. There was a single drawing in the proposal defining the engine/nacelle placement on the wing - I've attached that as well.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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My dear Mark,

what was the Grumman designation number for it ?.
 
In a couple of publications it was identified as Grumman HU-16F, however this is not a model number, but a US naval variant on the HU-16.
 
GTX said:
View attachment 731596
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Not sure about the market for this thing. The nonsense about an electric variant really undermines the credibility. Viking apparently is going to produce a run of CL-415s for Greece as DHC-515s. Not sure about what changes will be made. Aside from firefighting, I’m not sure about the passenger capacity - the old CL-215 supposedly could seat 26 and the CL-415 could accommodate 18 paratroopers, presumably fully kitted smoke jumpers. My gut tells me that the firebomber market is far more lucrative than producing passenger carrying amphibians? At very least, the old Albatross is a better starting point than a PBY Catalina.
 
Here's an interesting document with a number of concepts from Volpar to turboprop the Albatross. The final design with the reconfigured nose (or should I say bow?!) looks like someone was looking at British flying boats.....

From the Matt Rodina Collection, Greater St. Louis Air & Space Museum.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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  • Volpar Concepts for G-111 Albatross Turboprop Conversions.pdf
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And another document from Grumman St. Augustine with assessements/recommendations for two and four engine approaches for a turboprop conversion of the Albatross. From the Matt Rodina Collection, Greater St. Louis Air & Space Museum.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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  • Grumman G-111 Albatross Turboprop Conversion Study Nov-5-1985.pdf
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