Griffon-engined Hawker Hurricane

PabloSniper

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What do you think if the Hurricane upgrades to a bubble canopy and a Griffon engine?


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It's attractive, but I doubt there is enough tail there.
 
What do you think if the Hurricane upgrades to a bubble canopy and a Griffon engine?
Personally I prefer to discuss about real history which is much more interesting that this speculative whatif. I suffer a lost interest that inversely correlates to how distant is what if fantasy from real facts.
Reality is much more exciting than that fantasy proposed from hush kit blog. No need to waste time.
Although the Griffon was considered for the Hurricane, Hawker moved into new designs because that fighter had no development potential.

May I suggest this readings?

British Secret Projects Vol 3. Fighters 1935-1950. Tony Buttler. Ed Crécy. Chapter 1 and 2

Ultimate Allied Fighters of the 2nd WW. Justo Miranda. Ed Fonthill. Chapter 15, 16, 18 and 19

Moderator notes:

Please take care to place your posts in the right section. You posted a clearly marked whatif subject into a real projects section
This forum deals about real projects. What if is allowed but off-topic.

Please avoid mixing fantasy with real projects. You initiated with fantasy at post#1 to later post a real concept on #5. That creates confusion.
 
Moderator notes:

Please take care to place your posts in the right section. You posted a clearly marked whatif subject into a real projects section
This forum deals about real projects. What if is allowed but off-topic.

Please avoid mixing fantasy with real projects. You initiated with fantasy at post#1 to later post a real concept on #5. That creates confusion.
Thank you, and I'm sorry.
 
Hawker Hurricane Evolution​



During the ‘Phoney War’ (September to 10 May 1940) the Hawker Hurricane Mk.I fighters of the British Expeditionary Force (B.E.F.) based in France and the Advanced Air Striking Force based in Belgium, performing well against the Messerschmitt Bf 109 C-1 and D-1 German fighters, but were unable to compete against the new Bf 109 E-1 and E-3 who began operating in the Occidental Front in May 1940 during the Operation Fall Gelb.

Before starting the Battle of Britain the RAF had already lost 195 Hurricanes in the continent.

During tests carried out in May 1940 with a captured Messerschmitt Bf 109 E, it was found that, in realistic combat conditions, its manoeuvrability was inferior to that of the Spitfire Mk.I although experienced pilots could make more closed turns by forcing the slats to the limit.

Despite being more manoeuvrable than the Spitfire, the Hurricane Mk.I had half the chance of survival in a confrontation with the Bf 109 E. Depending on the flight altitude, the Hurricane was between 15 and 48 kph slower than the German BF 109 E and a difference of speed of more than 20 kph was considered lethal in 1940.

To reduce the number of loses, the Fighter Command banned flights over sea and the Fighter Control tried to lead the Hurricanes only against the bombers, although it was very difficult to distinguish them from fighters with the radar of the time.



During the Battle of Britain the Bf 109 used to fly at great heights trying to surprise the British fighters while climbing to intercept the bombers. After a fast diving attack, they regained altitude to avoid the dog-fight below the 6,000 m.

The main concern of the Hurricane pilots was the low rearward view of the cockpit and the Germans soon developed ‘hit-and-run’ tactics that could be used successfully against it. In April 1940 the Hurricane Mk.I coded SD-K (P3221) was fitted with one improved canopy, with experimental blister hood, to improve visibility to the rear. On 26 October 1940 flew the Mk.I (P3889) fitted with a single piece bubble canopy, taking improved visibility a stage further, but the modification might have required too many structural changes and the project was discontinued in March 1942.

In France, the Hurricanes of the B.E.F. proved how difficult it was to shoot down a Heinkel He 111, with 270 kg armour, in 1940. The British pilots often exhausted their 2,600 ammunition rounds without obtaining visible results while the German bombers returned to their bases with more than 100 impacts of 7.7 mm and were repaired in a few days. These experiences influenced the design of the cannon armed Hurricane Mk.II and Spitfire Mk.V.



The British had acquired the manufacturing rights of the 20 mm Hispano-Suiza H.S. 404 cannon with explosive shells, but its installation on the wings of fighters was problematic. The weapon had been designed as an integral part of the Hispano-Suiza H.S.12 Y-31 engine and lacked structural strength to act independently. The adaptation was difficult, during the Battle of Britain some Spitfires Mk.IB of the Nº 19 Sqn, experimentally equipped with two Hispano Mk.I cannons, suffering numerous stoppage problems. The RAF avoided its usage until the appearing of the Mk.II in the summer of 1941.



The F.37/35 proposal was issued to install four 20 mm wing-mounted Oerlikon FF cannons in the Hurricane Mk.I (V7360) the prototype was flight tested at Langley in July 1940, but the project was rejected on 23 April 1936 in favour of the Westland Whirlwind, a twin engine fighter faster than the Spitfire Mk.II, Hurricane Mk.I and Bf 109 E at medium and low level, without adaptation problems to the early Hispano Mk.I drum feed version.



In late 1939 the Hurricane Mk.I (L1750) was fitted experimentally with two 20 mm Oerlikon FF cannons housed in gondolas under the outer wing panels. Firing trials were performed at Boscombe Down test centre and the prototype fought in the Battle of Britain, but the Oerlikon was dropped in favour of the Hispano Mk.II cannon.



Several methods were considered to mitigate the lack of fire power, including air-to-air bombing with Long Aerial parachute mines, dropped from a Handley Page Harrow modified bomber of the Nº 420 Flight, and 3.25 inches rockets vertically fired from the rear fuselage of the Hurricanes, a project named Sunflower Seed.

To prove the idea, a Hurricane Mk.I was modified to embody a single rocket tube, installed just aft the cockpit. On the first firing trial the fuselage was damaged, the fabric area around the mouth of the tube was reinforced with metal plates and other firings were accomplished satisfactorily, but the accuracy of the system was low and it was never used operationally.



The lack of the right engines in the international market during the World War Two, caused the appearance of many different prototypes of hybrid fighters. Engines and airframes of both bands were exchanged with experimental purposes.

In 1938 the Yugoslavian Government acquired 24 Hawker Hurricane Mk.I fighters, together with the manufacturing licence to allow production of another 100 units in the factories of Zmaj and Rogozarski. However, by the time of German onslaught on April 1941, only 20 fighters had been delivered to the Royal Yugoslav Air Force.



When entering the war, the British Government suspended the exports of Merlin engines, urgently needed for their own defence.

As an alternative, the engineers Ilic and Sivcev of the Ikarus-Zemun factory, experimentally installed the German Daimler Benz DB 601A engine in one of the Hurricane IK-Z of local manufacturing. New engine bearers had to be built for the transformation, as well as a redesign of the electrical and cooling systems.

The new machine was named LVT-1 (Lovac Vazduhoplovno Tehnichi-1) and flight tested by the captain pilot Milos Bajagic in the Summer of 1940, proving better take-off performance and climb rate that either the Hurricane Mk.I of the Bf 109 E-3

The Ikarus LVT-1 Hurrischmitt was a bit faster than the Hurricane IK-Z although not as much as the Bf 109 E-3.



By early 1941, several proposals were made for the installation of alternative power plants in the Hawker Hurricane Mk.II to alleviate possible shortages of Merlin XX engines. The Rolls-Royce Griffon IIA, Napier Dagger and Bristol Hercules engines were considered.



Britain had provided the Soviet Union a total of 2,952 Hurricanes and there were strong rumours that at least one of them was powered by one 1,250 hp Shvetsov ASh-82 radial engine and armed with two 20 mm ShVAK cannons and four 0.5 in UBT machine guns.



The Hurricane airframe, designed in 1934, limited its potential development as a pure fighter and the series II, IV, V and XII, powered by one Merlin XX engine with two-stage supercharger, were specialized versions in the ground attack role.

The Mk.IIB, a formidable strafing aircraft against soft targets, was armed with twelve wing-mounted 0.303-in Browning machine guns, the Mk.IIC with four wing-mounted 20 mm Hispano Mk.II cannons, remained in production for a variety of duties until 1944, the Mk.IID with two 40 mm Vickers ‘S’ antitank cannons housed in gondolas under the outer wing panels, the Mk.IIE with four wing-mounted Hispano Mk.II cannons and eight 3-in rockets under the outer wing panels.



The Mk.IV was powered by one Merlin XX with four-blade propeller, the KZ706 prototype was flight tested with two experimental Long Tom 500 lbs air-to-ground/anti-ship heavy rockets, launched from underwings rails, the Mk.V was powered by one Merlin 32 and armed with two 40 mm Vickers ‘S’ cannons and the Mk. XII was powered by one Packard-Merlin 29 engine and armed with twelve wing-mounted 0.303-in Browning machine guns.



Following the defeat in the Battle of Britain, the Germans increased his offensive against the shipping convoys in the North Atlantic.

The Luftwaffe used long-range bombers Focke-Wulf Fw 200 C-1 of the I./KG40 based from Bordeaux-Merignac, these aircraft operated out the range of the British shore-based Beaufighters.

As a result of enemy air action the Allies lost 32 merchant ships for the last quarter of 1940 and 88 ships for the first quarter of 1941.



With the loss of the HMS Glorious and the HMS Courageous, the Royal Navy did not have enough aircraft carriers to escort all convoys and Winston Churchill pressed for an interim solution.

In spring 1941, thirty-five merchant ships were to be converted to 'Catapult Aircraft Merchantman' (CAM Ships) with the installation of a 70 ft rocket catapult in the forward deck, to launch surplus Hurricanes.



These Hurricat /Catafighters were standard Mk.Is, modified with catapult gear as Sea Hurricane Mk.IA.

From November 1941 to July 1943, only eight catapult launches were made from CAM Ships, with six enemy aircraft shot down and the loss of one pilot.

The major drawback of the Hurricat system was that, once the interception was completed, the fighter had to be ditched and the pilot would be picked up by the mother ship or by the nearest escort vessel, the average time to pick him up is between four and six minutes.

For artic operations the survivability was improved with the fitment of one Type K single-man dinghy.

The CAM system was dropped when some merchant ships were converted in small escort carriers (MAC ships) and a new type of fighter, fitted with catapult spools and arrester hook, was developed as Sea Hurricane Mk.IB, for MAC operation.



Early in 1941, Colonel Stewart Menzies of the British Secret Intelligence Service, proposed the possibility of deploying a fighter pick-a-back on a bomber to attack the Focke-Wulf bombers in the North Western Approaches.

The RAF Coastal Command put forward a proposal to mount a Hawker Hurricane Mk.IIC on top of an Armstrong Whitworth Whitley modified bomber.

During the spring of 1941 Short Bros Ltd. proposed a variant of the Short-Mayo Composite launch system mounting a Hurricane Mk.IIC on top of a Consolidated B-24 Liberator bomber.

By the time of the Composite design was complete, Sir Henry Tizard of the Aeronautic Research Committee, listed the impracticalities of the project. The main shortcoming was the insufficient range of the fighter to return to the base after being launched.

When the engine icing problems of the towed Hurricane (V7480) were known the Composite project was cancelled on 26 March 1941.



The problem could have been easily solved by installing an anti-icing system with hot air coming from the Liberator engines and the Hurricane Mk.IIC was designed to carry two underwing fuel tanks for extended range.

But provide full long-range protection of the convoys with Composite aircraft required a prohibitive number of machines. Up to two squadrons may be necessary to each fighter maintained over one convoy and the number of Composites required would be out of all proportion to the number of interceptions accomplished.



Given the large number of Hurricanes built (near 14,000 units) there were many unusual variants, field modifications and uncompleted projects.



In April 1940 one Mk.I airframe was fitted with two modified Blackburn Roc floats for operation in Norwegian coastal waters, the estimated top speed of the seaplane version was 210 mph at 10,000 ft.



Some Mk.I and Mk.II fighters were converted in Photo Reconnaissance (PR) airplanes with two cameras fitted under the rear fuselage and two 44 gallon auxiliary fuel tanks under the outer wing panels, these airplanes were painted in overall Royal Blue.



In 1942 several Canadian built Mk.X were modified with fixed-ski landing gear for service in the Royal Canadian Air Force until 1943.



Experiments with degaussing coils carried by the Vickers Vildebeeste (S1713) and the Handley Page Arrow (K6998) were ineffective against the German magnetic mines, as the battery-generated magnetic field was insufficient to exploding them.

On 25 November 1939 Vickers proposed a Wellington Mk.I conversion fitted with one 48 ft diameter degaussing hoop charged by one 85 Kw generator housed in the fuselage.

Flying at 25 ft and 170 mph the system performed well, but flying over the water at low-altitude and low-speed, with a useless compass and bad visibility, was difficult and when the mines exploding the Wellington airframe suffered until 10g accelerations.

Theoretically a faster and more compact aircraft should suffer less structural damage when hit by shockwaves, in April 1943 the Hurricane Mk.IIC (KZ381) was fitted with one 40 ft of diameter degaussing hoop, but during the flying tests the airplane displayed a tendency to stall and the experiment was discontinued.



In 1945 the Mk.IIB (Z3687) was fitted with a laminar-flow wing for research.



The Soviets also converted at least twenty Hurricane Mk.IIB, Mk.IIC and Mk.XII to two-seat UTI trainers with open-cockpit configuration.

The BW948, BW945 and LW971 machines were used for artillery fire control in the Leningrad front in 1942, these airplanes were armed with two 20 mm wing-mounted ShVAK cannons and two 12.7 mm UB heavy machine guns.



The turbulence around the forward cockpit made the rear cockpit extremely uncomfortable, in 1947 two T.Mk.IIC/Trop Persian trainers, of the Doshan Teppeh Pilot School, were fitted with a modified Tempest canopy over the rear cockpit.



Late 1945 the Mk.IIA (INST 257) was converted as a taxying and brake control trainer and used in the Nº1 (Indian) Flying Training School at Ambala.

The airplane, coded ‘-DODO’, was fitted with two lateral tube seats framing, a strut-mounted nose wheel, and rendered flightless by the addition of metal angle spoilers over the outer wing panels.



On January 1941 Malta needed fighters, but none of the airplanes that could be made available gave sufficient range for Malta to be reached from Gibraltar.

As an alternative to the dangerous reinforcement by sea, test were conducted with the Hurricane Mk.I (V7480) towed by a Wellington Mk.IC converted bomber with a towing frame in place of the tail turret.

The fighter was fitted with hydraulically operated Malcom towing hooks on the outer wing panels and 200 ft of steel cable shackled to a towing bridle some 15 ft in front of the aircraft.

A number of towing trials were undertaken at Flight Refuelling-Staverton in March 1941, but the Merlin engine suffered severe icing and would not start after prolonged inactivity at high-altitude. The whole project was dropped.



Another experiment to increase the Hurricane range was the Hillson FH.40 device, a detachable top wing with integral fuel tank and the same planform and airfoil section as the Hurricane wing. The FH.40 wing weighted 630 lbs, including the release gear and struts.

The modification was implemented by F.Hills & Sons and fitted in the Hurricane Mk.I (I321) ex-Canadian (L1884), by ‘N’ type inter-plane struts.

The theory was that the top-wing giving additional lift to facilitate the take-off on heavily-laden escort fighter, it would be jettisoned via an electric solenoid slip device.

In December 1943 the prototype was flight tested at the Boscombe Down Experimental Establishment, but trials were limited to a 7,800 lbs low weight configuration and the wing was never released. In January 1944 the scheme was abandoned as impractical.



On the night of June 18, 1940 the Luftwaffe launched its first night raid against England, at that time the Blenheim Mk.I F night fighter, underpowered by two 840 hp Bristol Mercury VIII radial engines, reached a maximum speed of 423 kph, against the 425 kph of the Heinkel He 111 H-3 and the 450 kph of the Junkers Ju 88 A-1. The Blenheim Mk.I F could only catch the Dornier Do 17 M-1 (344 kph) after a long chase and the Fighter Command was forced to use its single-engine day fighters in dangerous night missions.

The Gloster Gladiators Mk.II of the Nº 247 Sqn (code HP), Hawker Hurricanes Mk.I from Squadrons Nos. 73 (HV), 85 (VY), 87 (LK), 92 (GR), 96 (ZJ) and 151 (GG) and Supermarine Spitfires Mk.I from Sqn Nos. 19 (WZ), 41 (PN), 72 (RN), 74 (ZP), 62 (ZT), 603 (XT) and 616 (YQ) were pressed into the night fighting role.

It was intended that the day fighters would intercept raiders illuminated by searchlights. Exhaust flame dampers had not been fitted to these aircraft and the pilots lost the night vision, even during take-off, and it will take 20-30 min to re-establish.

Between July 10 and August 11, 1940, these night flights caused 28 accidents (a quarter of the Fighter Command's losses) and the deaths of seven pilots.

On November the Fighter Command ordered the overall black paint scheme for night fighters and proposed new interception tactics in which night patrols were 10 thousand behind the front line of searchlights. Tests were also carried out with a GCI control, the new AMES IFF Mark I Pip-squeak recognition equipment was installed in some night fighters. German Lorenz FuSAn 721 receivers to hunt along Knickebein navigation beams were installed in some Blenheims. Night fighters that did not have IFF had to signal their position using identification lights operated in Morse code.

In 1941 some Hurricane Mk.I were transformed into Mk.I NF night fighters with the installation of six exhaust pipes, anti-dazzling exhaust flame shields, Rotol propellers and Ferranti IFF Mark II devices that used two wire antennas extended between fuselage sides and tailplane tips.

These aircraft were painted overall in R.D.M.2 Special Night Black with standard roundels, Medium Sea Grey code letters and Dull Red serials. In some cases the underside roundels were overpainted Flat Black.

In May 1941 the No. 245 Sqn (DX) from Aldergrove was pressed into a night fighting role, followed in July by No. 213 Sqn (AK) used for the night defense of Famagusta-Cyprus and No. 30 Sqn (RS) based in Alexandria.

During the year the Hurricane Mk.I NF managed to bring down two He 111s, one Ju 88 and one Do 17. In April enter into service the Mk.IIB NF version with Merlin XX engine, twelve 0.303 in Browning machine guns, IFF Mark II, Fish-tail triple ejector exhaust (that affected neither the 540 kph top speed nor night visibility) and anti-dazzling blinkers.

During the month they were also used in Scapa Flow's defense operating with the No. 3 Sqn (JX), in July they participated in the defense of Malta with the MNFU night fighting unit and in December began operating with the 'B' Flight of No. 253 Sqn (SW) from Hibaldstowe-Lincolnshire. In May enter into service the Hurricane Mk.IIC, a night intruder with 4x20 mm Hispano cannons, 529 kph max speed, Fish-tail exhaust stacks, anti-dazzle guards and IFF Mark II.

During the second half of 1941 these aircraft made numerous night fighter and night intruder operations over German airfields in Northern France and the Netherlands.

The Mk.IIC used the same paint scheme as the Mk.IIB NF although some aircraft of the No.1 Sqn (JX) used the day disruptive pattern of Dark Green and Ocean Grey type M (matt) with R.D.M.2a undersurfaces.

In total, 4,711 Mk.II units were built operating with 82 Squadrons.

To combat the German ‘Winter Blitz’ (June-December 1940) there was a proposal to equip the Spitfires, Hurricanes and Typhoons with a radar set specifically designed for operation in single-seat night fighters.

In 1941, the EMI engineering team developed the AI Mk.VI, one 10 Kw Airborne Interception radar, with 500 ft to 3 miles detection range and automatic range strobe, dispensing with the need for an operator.

In April 1942 the new radar was tested in combat by some Defiants Mk.II of the Nº 264 Sqn and the order for twelve Hurricane Mk.IIC (NF), fitted with AI Mk.VI radar, was placed.



The prototype (BN288) flew on June 1942, but early flight trials with the Mk.VI radar set showed an undesirable shortcoming: the night vision of the pilot would be quickly destroyed by the radar screen glare.

Air Military publication, written in September 1943, describes the difficult task of watching the 4-inch diameter cathode-ray tube and looking out in the darkness for the enemy.



The Germans partially solved the problem using anti-glare red filters in the radar screen, anti-glare red pilot goggles and ultra-violet illumination for the instrument panel of their single-seat night fighters.



In November 1942 six Hurricanes Mk.IIC (NF), fitted with wing-mounted transmitting dipoles type 69, Azimuth dipoles vertically polarised and elevation antennas type 29, were delivered to the Nº 245 Sqn and another six to the Nº 247 Sqn for operational trials.



The new fighter was found top-heavy and difficult to handle, the drag generated by the antennae and the long-range fuel tanks required to give extended patrol endurance, considerably reducing the top speed and the airplane was unable to catch the new German night intruders Junkers Ju 88 A-4.



Early 1943 all the Mk.IIC (NF) were shipped to India.

On June 1943 were delivered to the Nº 176 (NF) Squadron for the defence of Calcutta from the Ki.21, Ki.48, G4M and H6K Japanese night raiders.

The Mk.IIC (NF) remained operational until January 1944.
 

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Personally I prefer to discuss about real history which is much more interesting that this speculative whatif. I suffer a lost interest that inversely correlates to how distant is what if fantasy from real facts.
Reality is much more exciting than that fantasy proposed from hush kit blog. No need to waste time.
Although the Griffon was considered for the Hurricane, Hawker moved into new designs because that fighter had no development potential.

May I suggest this readings?

British Secret Projects Vol 3. Fighters 1935-1950. Tony Buttler. Ed Crécy. Chapter 1 and 2

Ultimate Allied Fighters of the 2nd WW. Justo Miranda. Ed Fonthill. Chapter 15, 16, 18 and 19

Moderator notes:

Please take care to place your posts in the right section. You posted a clearly marked whatif subject into a real projects section
This forum deals about real projects. What if is allowed but off-topic.

Please avoid mixing fantasy with real projects. You initiated with fantasy at post#1 to later post a real concept on #5. That creates confusion.
Hurricane Mk. I (P3899) fitted with bubble canopy, real aircraft.

During the Battle of Britain the Bf 109 used to fly at great heights trying to surprise the British fighters while climbing to intercept the bombers. After a fast diving attack, they regained altitude to avoid the dog-fight below the 6,000 m.

The main concern of the Hurricane pilots was the low rearward view of the cockpit and the Germans soon developed ‘hit-and-run’ tactics that could be used successfully against it. In April 1940 the Hurricane Mk.I coded SD-K (P3221) was fitted with one improved canopy, with experimental blister hood, to improve visibility to the rear. On 26 October 1940 flew the Mk.I (P3889) fitted with a single piece bubble canopy, taking improved visibility a stage further, but the modification might have required too many structural changes and the project was discontinued in March 1942.
The Soviets also converted at least twenty Hurricane Mk.IIB, Mk.IIC and Mk.XII to two-seat UTI trainers with open-cockpit configuration.
The BW948, BW945 and LW971 machines were used for artillery fire control in the Leningrad front in 1942, these airplanes were armed with two 20 mm wing-mounted ShVAK cannons and two 12.7 mm UB heavy machine guns.
The turbulence around the forward cockpit made the rear cockpit extremely uncomfortable, in 1947 two T.Mk.IIC/Trop Persian trainers, of the Doshan Teppeh Pilot School, were fitted with a modified Tempest canopy over the rear cockpit.
 

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Real project
The problem here came from mixing a real project (Griffon Hurricane) with a fully fantastic drawing (Hushkit.net blog) which was, in turn, on real elements (Griffon Hurricane + Bubble canopy Hurricane). That is, the perfect confusion. :)

I personally enjoy whatif and fantasy to a some extent, depending on quality. However, I don't share the habit to mix reality and fantasy because the most persistent lies are based on the truth. Even though that Hushkit.net entry was labeled as "whatif stuff", it has found the way to enter our "real projects" section.
Thus, for serious researchers, fantasy elements are nothing but an interference and must be kept at a safe distance from true facts.

My proposal, is cleaning the thread from fiction elements and returning it to "unbuilt pre 1945 projects" with a new tittle as "Hawker Hurricane development"
 
I thought the Hurricane development was the Tornado/Typhoon.

Much easier than faffing with an old airframe and engine swaps. Just my ten pence worth.
 
I thought the Hurricane development was the Tornado/Typhoon.

Much easier than faffing with an old airframe and engine swaps. Just my ten pence worth.
I think you're correct that the Tornado/Typhoon was very much Hawker's big project to succeed the Hurricane. They probably recognized that the Hurricane had limited potential for further improvement without significant redesign. It made much more sense to start from a clean sheet of paper.

Like the Curtiss P-40 on the other side of the pond one can make a good argument that Hurricanes were manufactured longer than they should have. I'm guessing there were the same sort of industrial concerns where there is hesitancy to switch to building a new aircraft because of the resulting dip in production while the factories are retooled, it's ensured parts are being made to the right specifications, etc. The Tornado's engine didn't work well and even the Typhoon had a number of problems that had to be sorted out, so that would have further delayed fully switching over from building Hurricanes.
 
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Well, as it was, the Hurricane and P-40 had decent secondary roles and were indeed far from useless in their main production forms.

Engines wise, well the Tornado and Typhoon had a few potential alternate engies. The Merlin for example and I think the Griffon was considered.

My great uncle flew P-40's in the north Africa campaign and always said that it was a fine workhorse/decent place to be if you had to be anywhere people were shooting at you.

My point of view was always based around 4. whatever inches of armour, even when we were only being shot at by German farmers.
 
The Typhoon's wing design was a mistake that cost the lives of many pilots and neither the aircraft nor the complicated engine were sufficiently tested when they were forced into combat.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it the Typhoon's tendency to shed its tail that cost lives?
The Typhoon proved to be quite successful in a ground-attack role - with the original wing. Less than ideal at altitude, but entirely satisfactory low down.
 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it the Typhoon's tendency to shed its tail that cost lives?
The Typhoon proved to be quite successful in a ground-attack role - with the original wing. Less than ideal at altitude, but entirely satisfactory low down.


In July 1942, a number of Jagdbombers Fw 190 A-2/U3 and A-3/U2 that could fly at 312 mph at sea level carrying different combinations of SC 50 and SC 500 bombs. They proceeded inland turning to attack British harbours, port installations, railway transport, electric plants, radar stations and southern RAF aerodromes in retaliation from the Rhubarbs, Rodeo and Ranger attacks.

To meet the menace the Typhoon was prematurely pressed into service while still so unprepared.

The massive Tiffie proved to be 40 mph faster than the Spitfire Mk.VB (below 20,000 ft) and the Air Staff hoped that it could successfully face the Fw 190, despite their disappointing climb rate, lack of performance in altitude and unreliable power plant.

On 11 September 1941 the Nº 56 Sqn based at Duxford was equipped with some Typhoon Mk.IA fighters for operational conversion.

The serviceability of the first Typhoons was very poor and the airplanes spent long periods on the ground undergoing maintenance.



Diving in the rarefied air at 30,000 ft. the 7 tons machines accelerated violently and when reaching 25,000 ft, with the instruments reading 450 mph, the aircrafts were actually flying at 675 mph. (Mach 0.64). At this point, the Typhoon was suddenly out of control. The ailerons did not respond properly, the horizontal tail plane suffered a violent flutter. At Mach 0.75, a shock wave was formed above the wings and the air around the cockpit went white. At 20,000 ft, the denser air started to restrain the airplanes, but when reaching 18,000 ft. in a most puzzling way, the controls were again working fine.

Designed for structural strength, the wing of the Typhoon was very thick (18% thickness/chord ratio) and in the superior curvature the air flux made itself locally supersonic at 0.64 Mach, producing a shockwave and, therefore, huge structural charges in the tail and in the rear section of the fuselage.

During the air battles with the Fw 190, some Typhoons suffered structural failures in the tail assembly and others failed to pull out of their dives, or simply vanished while flying over sea.

No less of 155 such failures occurring and evidence was slowly accumulating on the transport joint just forward of the tailfin.

To strengthen this point, engineers made a wreath of 20 fishplates bolted around the suspect joint, but the problem was not completely solved after 26 deadly accidents, the decision was made to abandoning the primary task for which the Typhoon has actually been designed.

On the second half of 1942 their role was changed from low-level interceptor to a fighter-bomber and night intruder, during full-moon periods.

During 1943 the entire fleet of Typhoons was slowly modified for ground attack duties: gun barrels were fully faired, tail planes were enlarged, car doors were deleted and the new bubble canopy on sliding rails (with Grade A armoured windscreens and Type I Mk. III projector gunsight) were introduced.

From November all the Typhoons of the Second Tactical Air Force were armed with eight rail-launched 60 lbs fin stabilised rockets and their Mk. III gunsights were replaced by the model Mk. IIL with adjustable sight head for rocket firing.
 

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Designed for structural strength, the wing of the Typhoon was very thick (18% thickness/chord ratio) and in the superior curvature the air flux made itself locally supersonic at 0.64 Mach, producing a shockwave and, therefore, huge structural charges in the tail and in the rear section of the fuselage.
Oh, wow, I hadn't realized that the Typhoon wing was so thick! No wonder it was a terrible high altitude plane...
 
Oh, wow, I hadn't realized that the Typhoon wing was so thick! No wonder it was a terrible high altitude plane...
- The twin-engine fighters like the Me 210 and Me 262, designed before 1942, were not suitable for high altitude combat. The reasons were their great mass and the turbulence generated between the lower face of the wing and the engine nacelles.

Same fate suffered the British high-altitude interceptor Westland Welkin in November and the naval fighter Firebrand that had to be converted into a torpedo-strike fighter airplane, due to its control problems at high altitude, in March 1943.

On the other hand, the new American fighters P-38 Lightning and P-47 Thunderbolt (based in England) started to suffer strange accidents always when diving from high altitude.

On 13 February 1941, the rocket fighter prototype Messerschmitt Me 163A V1 made its first flight (without an engine) reaching 850 km/h in a dive, during its test programme. On 13 August, the Me 163A was flown powered by a variable thrust Walter R II-203 b rocket engine with 750 kgf static thrust. In a subsequent test, it reached 805 km/h in level flight.



The fuel rocket burnt so fast during take-off that the fuel tanks were empty before the end of the tests. To find out the limits, the Me 163A V4 was towed up to 13,000 feet by a Messerschmitt Bf 110 over Peenemünde West, with full load of fuel, on 2 October. After the rockets ignited, the airplane reached 0.84 Mach, the shock wave caused the air flow over the outer wing to separate suddenly and the aircraft pitched nose down at 11G, plunging into shock stall dive. Shutting the engine, the pilot recovered control, landing normally. It was afterwards ascertained that it had flown at 1,004.5 km/h.

The record was kept in secret for security reasons.



Something was definitely wrong with the second generation of war fighters.

The odd phenomenon was called compressibility and different type of aircraft suffered it at different speeds and manifested itself in different ways that were usually defined under the term compressibility buffeting. The cause of all this was an odd physical phenomenon known by aerodynamicists as Coanda effect. It stated that any fluid running above a curve surface tends to adhere to it and increase its speed proportionally to its curvature.

Designed for structural strength, the wing of the Typhoon was very thick (18% thickness/chord ratio) and in the superior curvature the air flux made itself locally supersonic at 0.64 Mach, producing a shockwave and, therefore, huge structural charges in the tail and in the rear section of the fuselage.

The high-altitude interceptor Westland Welkin was designed with an even thicker wing than the Typhoon (19.15%) and suffered such vibrations during the flight test that it was forgiven to take this machine up to its design height, when in combat. Its operational career was a symbolic one, never been attached to a squadron.
 
The problem with the Lightning manifested itself at Mach 0.675 as a shockwave formed around the wing centre section, at Mach 0.73, the turbulence reached the tail plane, pressing down the control surface that could not be operated by the pilot to get the airplane out from the diving.

On 4 November 1941 the Lockheed test pilot Ralph Virden was killed when his YP-38 broke up during a dive recovery test. A number of P-38’s lost empennages and the aircraft earned a reputation as a pilot killer.

In the Thunderbolt, the disturbance was generated by the cowling of the engine and tended to jam the tail plane at Mach 0.805, with loss of control or even loss of the tail assembly. On March 26, 1942 the elevator flutter transonic phenomena caused the empennage separation of a P-47B and the test pilot George W. Burrell was killed.

In the P-38 and P-47, dive-recovery flaps were the eventual solution, between November 1943 and June 1944 both airplanes were equipped with an electrically driven dive flap that opened up to 35 degrees in less than one second. Its purpose was not to act as an airbrake, given that at 25,000 ft. it would not have produced a significant loss of speed. However, the turbulence generated when opening the dive flap, raised the nose of the machine and effectively took it off from the diving.

In the Hellcat a shockwave was formed above the wings at Mach 0.75, in the Pacific theatre many Hellcat pilots dived to their deaths because of compressibility but neither Grumman nor the U.S. Navy put the airplane out of service.

In the P-51 Mustang the wing drag rises abruptly at Mach 0.66 and the structural damage occurred at Mach 0.85.

At Mach 0.86 the Messerschmitt Me 262 went out of control in a dive that the pilot could not counter.
 

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