Great Lakes Prototypes & Projects

[hesham]

Hi,

this company is completely a mystery,it was formed in 1929,its prototypes are well known,and I don't know SBG concept,even I never heard about any project for it,but maybe someone can help.

The firm also designed some target drones,also Capt. Richardson of Great Lakes Aircraft Corporation designed a huge steam-powered airplane,I don't know if it was belonged to this organization or not.

Its designation number is either a puzzle,suddenly you find Model-41 and Model-63,absolutely it couldn't create that large sequence of proposals ?!.

 

[hesham]

The firm also designed some target drones,also Capt. Richardson of Great Lakes Aircraft Corporation designed a huge steam-powered airplane,I don't know if it was belonged to this organization or not.

Here it's,

Popular Science

Popular Science gives our readers the information and tools to improve their technology and their world. The core belief that Popular Science and our readers share: The future is going to be better, and science and technology are the driving forces that will help make it better.

books.google.com.eg

 

[nemo85]

Hello guys,
I have a question. Was Great Lakes a subsidiary of Detroit Aircraft Corporation? And if so, how did it end because Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about it? In the book by Breihan, "Martin Aircraft," this is claimed. Are there any primary sources regarding this?

 

[Arjen]

I found a short piece on Great Lakes Aircraft Company (GLAC) here

The GREAT LAKES AIRCRAFT CO. was established in Oct. 1928 after Glenn L. Martin relocated his base of operations from Cleveland to Baltimore (see GLENN L. MARTIN CO.). Great Lakes, headed by William Roberts Wilson (COB); Charles F. Van Sicklen (VP and dir. of sales); Richard Hunter (dir. of advertising); and P. B. "Zeke" Rogers (chief engineer), acquired the entire Martin facility at 16800 St. Clair Rd., along with the rights to manufacture all then existing Martin aircraft designs. Production began on 2 Jan. 1929 and the first carry-over batch of 18 Martin 74 Torpedo Bombers (called the Great Lakes TG-1) was delivered on 30 April. Work was also begun on a "light-weight aircraft . . . that would be more than competitive with [other popular civilian 2-seat sport planes.]" The result was the 2T-1, soon modified into the 2T-1A, arguably one of the best handling sport-trainers ever produced. In 1931 Dorothy Hester, flying her 2T-1A, set a world's record of 62 continuous "outside" loops.


By 1935 the deepening Depression was beginning to make the bankers of Allied Motor Industries, the holding company that controlled Great Lakes, very nervous. The 2T-1 series was doing well, and although several military designs were experimented with, neither the army nor the navy expressed much interest. The lack of hoped-for lucrative government contracts caused several panicky investors to pull out, bringing a premature end to all production in 1935. In the mid-1960s Harvey Swack, of MAYFIELD HTS., acquired the remaining assets of the company. Swack designed a small, single place version of the 2T-1A called the "Baby Great Lakes" that was a favorite of home-builders. During the years 1972-77 Douglas Champlin, of Enid, OK, manufactured licensed, full-size reproductions of the 2T-1A. R. D. Franklin moved manufacturing of the 2T-1A1 to Eastman, GA, in 1978 and production ceased in 1980.

Both United States Navy Aircraft since 1911 by Swanborough and Bowers, and Martin Aircraft 1909-1960 by Breihan, Piet and Mason have the Detroit Aircraft Company (DAC) as owners of GLAC in 1930.

DAC didn't last long after that; from wiki

During the Great Depression the Detroit Aircraft holding company found that rising losses from other operations were draining the company coffers. On October 27, 1931, the Detroit Aircraft Corporation went into receivership. The heavier than air portions of the company were amalgamated under Lockheed, while the lighter than air divisions were formed into a new unit called the Metalclad Airship Corporation.[6]

On Allied Motor Industries, I found some more information here

In 1928 Allied Motor Industries purchased the Henney Motor Co., a professional car builder in Freeport, Illinois as well as the Elgin Clock Co. of Elgin, Illinois. By 1930, Allied’s holdings included the following: American Aeronautical Corp.; American Cirrus Engines Co.; Great Lakes Aircraft Corp.; Henney Motor Corp.; VanSicklen Corp. (a subsidiary formed to operate the Elgin Watch Co.plant); and the Weatherproof Body Corp. Van Sicklen even got into the automobile accessory business in 1929 when they purchased the rights to the Lorraine Controllable Driving Light, a popular spot light that was typically mounted on the cowl.

Probably some more digging needed. It looks like GLAC's ownership went to Lockheed for a while, with GLAC's first incarnation ending in 1935.

 

[Stargazer]

There never was an "SBG" design. In fact, it would be illogical because the "SB" prefix for "Scout Bombing" appeared a few years after the demise of the original Great Lakes company. According to my personal database, here are all the known Great Lakes designs (but if you know more I'm willing to hear about it!):

• Model 1: an eight-seat civil version of USN Martin 74 (T4M-1) with 525hp P&W Hornet engine (1st prototype) or Wright Cyclone engine (2nd prototype). These were produced for the U.S. Navy as TG-1 and TG-2 (18 and 32 examples built, respectively).
• Model 2-T-1 Sport Trainer: Two-seat open-cockpit biplane with 85hp Cirrus Mk III engine, designed by Charles Meyers. Two straight-wing prototypes, followed by approximately 53 examples of the production version with slightly swept wings. Several more versions followed: 2-T-1A (about 140 built), 2-T-1E (12 built), and several others which were conversions with different engines.
• Model 2-T-2 Speedster: Version of 2T-1 with 95hp Cirrus Hi-Drive and straight top wing for racing competition; refitted with 125hp Menasco C-4 for 1930 Cirrus Derby, then converted to 2T-1E.
• Model 2-S-W: Two-seat cabin biplane with 145hp Warner Super Scarab engine, evolved from 2T and planned for military trainer market. Likely same as a design studied to Army Attack Airplanes specification in 1934, and probably never built.
• Model 4-A-1 Amphibion: Cabin biplane amphibian with two 115hp Cirrus Hermes engines; designed by Holden Richardson and P. B. Rogers. Repowered with 300hp Wright J-6 after prototype was wrecked trying to take off.
• Model 41 (Army XPT-930): All-metal two-seat open-cockpit military biplane trainer with 165hp Continental radial engine. Evaluated by Navy as XPT-930, but rejected. Possibly evolved from Inland Model T, which was also listed as Army's XPT-930.
• Navy XSG-1: Two-seat open-cockpit scout amphibian biplane for U. S. Navy with 400hp P&W R-985 engine. Rejected.
• Navy XTBG-1: Three-seat torpedo-bomber cabin biplane for U. S. Navy with 800hp P&W XR-1830 engine, third cockpit behind engine.
• Navy XBG-1: Two-seat scout-bomber cabin biplane for U. S. Navy with 750hp P&W R-1535 engine.
• Navy BG-1: Production version of XBG-1 (60 built).
• Navy XB2G-1: Redesigned BG-1 with internal bomb bay; similar specs. Transferred to USMC as Command transport.

Great Lakes also assembly Vought UO-1 aircraft for the U.S Navy. A "Great Lakes PT glider" appears on civil registers [917N, c/n 1] but it was likely built by a completely different entity or individual. Later companies marketed upgraded versions of the 2-T-1 line: Great Lakes Aircraft Co., Enid, OK (created in 1964) and Great Lakes Aircraft Co., Wichita, KS (created in 1973), but they had nothing to do with the original company.

 

[Apophenia]

Great list Stéphane!

Since we may never have a Great Lakes designations thread, I'll stick my Model 2T series list here:

Model 2T-1 - GLAC 1929; 1st x 4 with unswept upper wings
- Model 2T-1 : 1 x 80 hp American Cirrus Mark III 4-cylinder
Model 2T-1A - GLAC 1929; swept uppers, improved engine
- Model 2T-1A: 1 x 85 hp American Cirrus Mark III 4-cylinder
-- Model 2T-1A also introduced often-retrofitted larger tail
Model 2T-1A-1 - WAI 1972; 1 x 150 hp Lycoming IO-360-B1F6
Model 2T-1A-1 - WACO Classic 2011; Lycoming IO-360-B1G6
Model 2T-1A-2 - WAI 1972; 1 x 180 hp Lycoming AEIO-360-B1G6
Model 2T-1A-2 - WACO Classic 2013; Lycoming AEIO-360-B1G6
Model 2T-1A-E - (Experimental) WAI homebuild plans vers.; x 10
Model 2T-1E - (Ensign) GLAC 1930; inverted ACE engine; large tail
Model 2T-1E - 1 x 95 hp American Cirrus Ensign* 4-cylinder; x ~12
-- * This inverted ACE Ensign engine also called the 'Hi-Drive'
-- X : Single 2T-1E airframe used for testing aero-engines
Model 2T-1MS - Unofficial designation; re-engined early '70s
- Model 2T-1MS: 1 x 125 hp Menasco C.4 Pirate inverted 4-cyl.
Model 2T-1R - (Ranger) Homebuilt; 1 x 200 hp Ranger 6-440-5
Model 2T-1T - WAI single-seat turboprop conv. for Doug Champlin
- Model 2T-1T : 1 x 420 shp Allison 250; 3-bladed, reversible prop
-- Model 2T-1T prototype lost during trials; no production plans
Model 2T-2 - Speedster racer variant; unswept upper wing
- Model 2T-2 : 1 x 95 hp American Cirrus 'Hi-Drive' 4-cyl.
-- Model 2T-2 later rebuilt to Model 2T-1E (qv) standards

The 'style' used above lacks that first hyphen - as per Great Lakes brochures and display placards. AKAIK, the 'extra' hyphen appeared when Windward Aviation Inc. (Enid, OK) restarted production in 1972 - although Windward usage varied. With WACO Classic production, that hyphen seems to disappear again.

 

[Stargazer]

Great Lakes Model 41
First flown in 1931.
Registered X11398 (c/n 266).
Evaluated by the U.S. Army Air Corps as the XPT-930 but eventually rejected.
NOTE: for some unknown reason, XPT-930 was also allocated to the Inland Model T [X503Y, c/n 100].

Some sources: Air Power 1979-11; 1934 Aircraft Year Book

 

[riggerrob]

The ugliest was Great Lakes’ XSG-1 amphibian biplane. The aft fuselage was cutaway to improve arcs for the rear gunner. When it did not perform as well as Grumman’s Duck, it lost the competition.

 

[Stargazer]

The ugliest was Great Lakes’ XSG-1 amphibian biplane. The aft fuselage was cutaway to improve arcs for the rear gunner. When it did not perform as well as Grumman’s Duck, it lost the competition.

Great Lakes XSG-1
One built [BuAer 8974].
One 400hp P&W R-985 engine.

 

[robunos]

Great Lakes Model 41
First flown in 1931.
Registered X11398 (c/n 266).
Evaluated by the U.S. Army Air Corps as the XPT-930 but eventually rejected.
NOTE: for some unknown reason, XPT-930 was also allocated to the Inland Model T [X503Y, c/n 100].

Some sources: Air Power 1979-11; 1934 Aircraft Year Book

If you study the third of your images, XPT-930.jpg, there appears to be some retouching of the fin and rudder . . .

cheers,
Robin.